Tough Questions for the GOC, TOC, ROAC, ROCiE, etc.

[Miriam]

I am responding to Fr.Dionysi's post.

Sir, I find your post a bit too harsh. If your intention was correction then I think you have failed. You could have been a little less harsh. I have never found the attack mode to be anything less then a detriment. In my own case it only serves to make me resentful. Since this is a discussion forum, I feel you should have provided a bit more detail and "correction" to this thread. If there is other "correct" information, please show us where to look.

In Lounger's defense, I can say that I have seen information regarding Vl. Valentine available on the net in both the negative and positive kind. It is all a matter of perception. No church or bishop is without flaw. We can only do the best we can when we sift through the myriad of information.

I must say that this "in" fighting between all the jurisdictions is the one of the greatest turn offs in Orthodoxy. I happen to agree with Liudmilla when she wrote not long ago that in the end it will be the little people who will hold onto Orthodoxy and not the "churches". I truly hate that "herd" or "flock" mentality!!!

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

I thought Priest Dionysi responded in a kind manner.

I do not believe it is anyones place to "advise" a priest on how to conduct a dialog. Theological disagreements are one thing, but it seems disrespectful to judge what is good or bad pastoral care by a priest in such a way as if he or she is the priests equal in Christ's charisma.

I'm sorry if I have offended you, but I have seen way to much of this "democracy" type open floor "advise" on how a priest should conduct himself in the GOA. A priest has complete authority in the Church over everything, and on an internet board, he at least has my respect and extreme benefit of the doubt, even in light of the differences in our synods.

In addition, he should not be referred to as "SIR" (!) unless you can show he is not Orthodox in faith. This is highly disrespectful.

Finally, loungers original post contained a mere paragraph of ridiculous wording to write off the ROAC. My only dissappointment with Fr. Dionysi's post was that he even bothered to respond.

[Natasha]

miriam, how dare you speak to Priest Dionysi like that?! AND to address him as "Sir"?! Even if you do not agree with his post (which seemed to me perfectly fine and included nothing inflammatory) you cannot verbally attack a Priest like this. What you did is totally unacceptable.

[Protopriest Dionysi]

Miriam writes" In my own case it only serves to make me resentful. Since this is a discussion forum, I feel you should have provided a bit more detail and "correction" to this thread. If there is other "correct" information, please show us where to look. "

What I posted was direct and truthful. If this makes you resentful, I am sorry. Yes, I could have provided a long history of what had occured. In fact, this has been done numerous times before, yet people still sread "untruths" and then get resentful when being corrected.

Miram writes"In Lounger's defense, I can say that I have seen information regarding Vl. Valentine available on the net in both the negative and positive kind. It is all a matter of perception. No church or bishop is without flaw. We can only do the best we can when we sift through the myriad of information."

It is all a matter of preception? Does this mean truth is relative in your mind? You can do better than just sifting through the myriads of information and deciding what is true depending on your "preception". You can look for the facts, and staret there. You may disagree if canonical violations and ecumenism are not matters worth seperating over, but can see if this is te reason that is given.

Forced to retire? Where was this ever mentioned. Did you or Lounger ever call or write your bishop and ask? They have a copy of the Ukaze and other documents. Why not find out directly what had occured. May I also suggest that you read the history of our church, even the short one, that was posted to get an idea of what occcured.

Priest Dionysi

[Justin Kissel]

This is just a general note that I feel I should make as a moderator on this board. I say this more as a participant than a moderator, though. This is not directed at anyone on this thread (though some of the words on the thread necessitated that I say something).

This board is a board where issues can be discussed in a civil, and hopefully even brotherly, manner. Even brothers argue, no one is going to be banned or censored for getting into arguments; however, arguments and harsh words should be the exception, not the rule, in a Christian life; this forum hopes to mirror as close as possible a Christian attitude, and help equip people for living a Christian life. I am not, and realise that I cannot, enforce this "from above". I would not want to even if I could; and if I did want to, I'd have to start by "cracking down" harder on my own foolishness. No, it is up to each of us, as the participants, to make sure that we abide by Christian love (which, again, does call for harsh word at times, but generally is meek and gentle even in correction).

If it would be possible I would like to see the Priest Dionysi/Miriam thing be resolved in PM, so that we can move on and not be tempted to judge anyone or say something we will later wish to take back. I say this not as a moderator of the forum, but as a participant who hopes we can continue the spiritually edifying atmosphere that has been a part of this forum since it's beginning. Perhaps we can change back to wholly focusing on the actual questions raised in the thread? (Priest Dionysi seems to be setting the example for us to follow here)

[Miriam]

Thank you Justin for your words. They are more wise than you realize.

My apologies to Fr.Dionysi I was perhaps not mindful of the words I should have used. In attempting to answer what I perceived to be, I gave an impression that was not quite indicative of my own personal views.

My apologies also to the forum.

[Protopriest Dionysi]

Justin;

I agree with you. Let us really think about about we are doing on this list and how we will do it. We should be civil to one another. I find it a wee bit funny that we may fight with each other on such lists, being as rude as possible; but we are very nice to those who check us out at the store, even if we do not know them, or their another jurisdiction, or even some pagan. We, who come here on our own free will, should be able to be civil.

However!!!!!! (just to get your attention)

I do not think we should worry about calling each other to task. If I say something out of order, rude ect.. I should be called on the carpet. If I am participating in an "untruth" I think I should be dealt with in a direct manner and asked to give an account. Too often, being direct is seen as rude. I think we should not be so "thin-skinned" :ohvey: , yet not be a bully either.

This is a good forum that works, I think, because of the quality of people that participate in it .

I am thankful, that even with such "classy" and intellectual individuals, you still let me be part of it.

Priest Dionysi