NOVA: Quantum Leap = It takes a leap to believe

[Maria]

We all read about repentance, which seemed to be a major theme in several books of the Narnia series:

(a) The WItch, The Lion, and the Wardrobe
(b) The Return of the Dawn Treader
(c) The Silver Chair

C.S. Lewis' rendition of the death of Aslan (a Christ figure) and the Final Judgment really affected my son.
He was in tears. It is amazing how a fantasy tale can affect children. Anyway, he confided in me that he did not trust unmarried priests due to the scandals in the Catholic Church, and that he wanted to go Orthodox because he wanted to go to Heaven. He started reading the Holy Bible to get the real version and he listened intently to the services during Holy Week. He absolutely loved the Pascha celebration, and he longed to serve on the Holy Altar.

[jgress]

Joanna, to me the problem remains that your attitude to Homer and to Lewis is inconsistent. If we can't read Lewis because it contains references to magic, regardless of whatever good we may find elsewhere, then I don't see how we can allow ourselves to read Homer, which contains references to the gods of pagans, which are demons. But the Church has allowed Her children to read Homer, on the understanding that we may leave out the false parts, i.e. the gods, but accept the true parts, i.e. the virtues of the heroes. Why can't we apply the same principle to reading Lewis? I think with Lewis there is even a stronger case than with Homer, since Homer and his pagan readers, by all accounts, actually believed in the myths described (not so the philosophers like Plato, who condemned Homer for teaching falsehood about the gods), but the Narnia Chronicles are clearly intended as fiction. Nothing in Lewis' non-fiction oeuvre suggests belief in sorcery and I don't think it's fair for you to claim that he taught that belief in magic was compatible with Christianity. That is an unwarranted inference you are making.

The Narnia Chronicles are like the pagan myths of Homer, in that they contain universal moral truths, but are couched in the language of pagan mythology which is fictional, while the Gospel is fact. Lewis nowhere taught that we should place his fables over the fact of Christ. On the contrary, like the pagan myths, Lewis saw the function of his fables as leading the minds of contemporary pagans (secularists) to true faith, as appeared to have happened to Maria's son.

[joasia]

Jonathan,

I will show you how I am consistent.

If we can't read Lewis because it contains references to magic, regardless of whatever good we may find elsewhere, then I don't see how we can allow ourselves to read Homer, which contains references to the gods of pagans, which are demons.

There's a big difference between the two. Lewis was a Christian who incorporated magic and such in his writings. He exemplified it. Homer was never a Christian so he wrote about his beliefs. To read Homer is to understand the world he came from. And that world was belief in pagans. It's a piece of ancient Greek philosophy. But, to read the works of a Christian who promotes magic is questionable. Let's say there was an Orthodox writer who wrote about "white magic" and promoted it. Wouldn't that be suspect? But, if an Orthodox Christian wrote about it as an explanation to how it is wrong for Christian belief, then that would be edifying. Fr. Seraphim Rose wrote a lot about other religions and about UFO's, but it wasn't in a manner that condoned it.

Another example. You have an Orthodox Christian who writes a story about reincarnation. Why? Can't he come up with a better scenario to make his point? Myself, I would wonder why he would find it necessary to tell the story that way. It wouldn't appeal to me at all.

The Narnia Chronicles are like the pagan myths of Homer, in that they contain universal moral truths, but are couched in the language of pagan mythology which is fictional, while the Gospel is fact.

That is righteous for Homer who didn't know Christ, but Lewis came to Christ and knew of His teachings. Why use a theme based on sorcery and magic to express Christian beliefs? Christianity doesn't need that fantasy background. The universal and moral truths of Christianity are based in the way we are shown to live our lives as Christians and the occult has no place in that. The occult was, point blank, rejected in the New Testament. So to your request to show you an Orthodox person (with credibility) who opposed Lewis' work, I show you the New Testament which rejects any occult influences. THAT is what I base my dislike about Lewis' Chronicles and the works of Tolkien and Rowling. It's not about my opinion.

And I'll throw in another example of Christian acceptance of the occult. Many Christians (and Orthodox ones) like to celebrate Halloween. Is this acceptable by the standards of Christian belief? Just because it seems harmless doesn't mean that it is right. And by the way, it's not harmless.

[jgress]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Whether or not Homer had an "excuse" (and it's questionable whether he did, since St Paul explicitly condemns pagans who did not believe in one God), that doesn't change the matter from the Christian's point of view: are these tales true or false? If false, by your reasoning, they must be incompatible with Orthodoxy and must not be read, since no matter what good is in them will not prevent us being corrupted by what is bad. I think, however, you realize that this argument is flawed, since it doesn't take into account our ability to use our reason and discern what is good or bad. You have completely failed to demonstrate that the Narnia books are uniquely insusceptible to our reason and discernment. Your argument seems to rely on the idea that Lewis was in fact an occultist and was using the Narnia books to promote occultism, but I say there is no evidence he was an occultist, and the intention of the Narnia books is clearly not to promote occultism, but to tell tales of virtue in a mythological setting.

For centuries, the Russians have preserved their folklore, which dates back to pagan times and beliefs. Should they have rather forgotten it all after converting, which seems to be what your argument suggests? Or is it not rather permissible for them to have retained their national memories and traditions, provided they did not undermine Orthodox faith and morals?

[Maria]

For centuries, the Russians have preserved their folklore, which dates back to pagan times and beliefs. Should they have rather forgotten it all after converting, which seems to be what your argument suggests? Or is it not rather permissible for them to have retained their national memories and traditions, provided they did not undermine Orthodox faith and morals?

When I was homeschooling my son due to the horrific lies promoted by humanistic secularism, Planned Parenthood, and homosexual pride in California public education, I encountered strong Fundamentalist opposition when I was writing lesson plans that included reading the fictional Dr. Seuss' Green Eggs and Ham as part of his reading and phonetics program. The leaders in the homeschooling coop wanted him to read simplified versions of the Holy Bible for children and nothing else.

Fundamentalists have a campaign to promote the reading of the Holy Bible for Church history, reading, and English literature when homeschooling. Thus Bible Studies constitute Reading and Writing. All that is needed for the complete education of their youth is "Rithmetic," and there are Biblically-based math books for elementary school children. As fundamentalists believe that only the Bible saves, they oppose the genres of fantasy, fiction, mythology, fairy tales, nursery rhymes, science fiction, etc., as they believe that such works pervert people. Since most of the Great Books are works of fiction, these works are not included as part of fundamentalist homeschooling. Science is likewise suspect, unless it is creation science, where God has created the world in which we live in 7000 years (One day is like a thousand years).

As long as children are raised with the truth, having them read good fictional works does not harm them as children as young as five or seven can distinguish reality (a horse) from fiction (a talking horse). Likewise, having them read books on Quantum Physics, would not harm them, if they can understand the math and the science behind it. Otherwise, they will be in for a culture shock as they enter the world unprepared to face it, or worse face bullying for being so different and rigid.

By the way, until Galileo's teachings about our solar system were overwhelmingly validated by science, his theory that the earth was not the center of our universe was condemned by theologians. Wasn't he excommunicated from the Catholic Church for his scientific discoveries? Since Galileo's findings apparently contradicted the Bible, why aren't fundamentalists part of the Flat Earth Society?

[joasia]

The occult is not permissible in any form in a Christian life. Period.

[Lydia]

Oedipus Rex, part of the "pagan" Greek classics, is a prefiguration of Christ's death on the Holy Cross, in that one man died for all of us. It was writings such as Oedipus Rex which prepared the Greeks to accept Christ.

When my husband and I were reading C.S. Lewis' The Chronicles of Narnia, we were at a very low point in "our walk with Christ," so we decided that we needed to find another church. At that time, Cardinal Mahony was leading the Roman Catholic Church into the pit of Hell with his "liturgical revolutions," as he called them. We called an Orthodox Christian parish and made an appointment to see the priest. To my son's delight, the Orthodox Priest recommended that he read Lewis' Space Trilogy. That recommendation immediately delighted my son and opened him up to the catechumenate. While reading The Space Trilogy, my son studied the Holy Fathers, especially St. Justin. He also studied the Bible.

I was reading over this thread and I came to this post. In what way is Oedipus Rex ( isn't "rex" latin,? ) a prefiguration of Christ? He murdered his father and slept with his mother, didn't he? The story is an affirmation of the inexorability of destiny.