Was Christ Born on Dec. 25th? ( ...and on which Dec. 25th?)

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GOCPriestMark
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Re: Was Christ Born on Dec. 25th? ( ...and on which Dec. 25th?)

Post by GOCPriestMark »

For your consideration:

The impious were at a loss regarding in what manner they might painfully put the saint to death. They then cast her into a dark and deep prison, until she should perish from hunger. Unknown to those who toiled in vain, the light of the Lord was with her and illuminated that prison cell. Daily, the angels brought her heavenly food, consisting of one loaf of bread which was sweeter than ambrosia and whiter than snow. Our Lord Jesus Christ, King of the angels, also visited her, and said, “Eugenia, I am He Who accepted the Cross and death for thee. And thou, for love of Me, hast endured such harsh torments; therefore, many gifts and great glory shall I vouchsafe thee in Mine everlasting kingdom. Thou shalt have this as a symbol of honor, which thou shalt enjoy in the heavens: thou shalt depart this temporal and perishable life and enter into life on high on the same day that I was born as Man.” After uttering this, the Master ascended into the heavens.

The impious one then sent the executioner, who slew the saint inside the prison on the 25th of December, the day of the nativity according to the flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ. Saint Eugenia's mother and brothers buried her holy relics with honor in one of the fields outside of the city, in a place called the Roman Road. It was in this place that the saint previously interred other sacred relics of the saints. The modest and noble-minded Eugenia led a remarkable and praiseworthy manner of life. She was also counted worthy of great glory by our Lord, God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

The Great Synaxaristes, December 24th, Holy Virgin-martyr Evgenia, pp. 961-962

==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==

Priest Mark Smith
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Re: Was Christ Born on Dec. 25th? ( ...and on which Dec. 25th?)

Post by timothyvargas »

Yes, thank you Fr. Mark.

December 25th was the universal date selected and used by the Church by the time of the writing of the lives of Martyr Eugenia along with others... I believe the work you quoted was from the account of St. Symeon the Metaphrastes' rendition into Greek (6th century?).

"Blessed are ye when men shall revile and persecute you and say all manner of evil against you falsely for My sake". http://thewonderfulname.blogspot.com/p/ ... f-god.html

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Re: Was Christ Born on Dec. 25th? ( ...and on which Dec. 25th?)

Post by Lukianos »

timothyvargas wrote:

There are holy fathers who say Christ was born in November, December and even March, so there does not seem to be a consensus of the fathers as to the exact date, nor is Dec. 25 made dogma by an Ecumenical Council that I have found. Perhaps someone can find it and post it here?

We hear alot these days of "consensus". what is the criteria for such a "consensus" of the holy fathers? Is it two, five, 10, 100 fathers? If we have saints who say Christ was born in November, are they less of a saint than those who say He was born on Dec. 25?

There is no dogma regarding the exact birth day of our Saviour, but you fail to take into account the Holy Tradition in making your judgement. St. John Chrysostom says “it is tradition, look no further”. Therefore, it really doesn’t matter how many of the Holy Fathers are behind a certain point of view. It is just what the Church retained in her consciousness that makes our belief.

All saints (including the Holy Fathers of the Church) were but human and erred in certain things. This is because of our limited nature confirming here the biblical affirmation: we can’t save ourselves, “for by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God” (Ephesians 2:8). But the Holy Tradition, which is the very work of God the Holy Spirit, is the keeper of truth. That’s why neither the atheist “astronomers” of the Pope, nor any other “scientists”, as they haven’t been able yet, would ever prove anything that could shake our belief or make us change the Holy Tradition.

True Orthodoxy is only that which does not accept and does not permit in anything, neither in teaching nor in church practices, any sort of innovations opposed to the Word of God and the decrees of the Universal Church. (Archbishop Averky, +1976)

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Re: Was Christ Born on Dec. 25th? ( ...and on which Dec. 25th?)

Post by Maria »

Thank you, Father Mark, for sharing this important part of our history/martyrology.

GOCPriestMark wrote:

For your consideration:

The impious were at a loss regarding in what manner they might painfully put the saint to death. They then cast her into a dark and deep prison, until she should perish from hunger. Unknown to those who toiled in vain, the light of the Lord was with her and illuminated that prison cell. Daily, the angels brought her heavenly food, consisting of one loaf of bread which was sweeter than ambrosia and whiter than snow. Our Lord Jesus Christ, King of the angels, also visited her, and said, “Eugenia, I am He Who accepted the Cross and death for thee. And thou, for love of Me, hast endured such harsh torments; therefore, many gifts and great glory shall I vouchsafe thee in Mine everlasting kingdom. Thou shalt have this as a symbol of honor, which thou shalt enjoy in the heavens: thou shalt depart this temporal and perishable life and enter into life on high on the same day that I was born as Man.” After uttering this, the Master ascended into the heavens.

The impious one then sent the executioner, who slew the saint inside the prison on the 25th of December, the day of the nativity according to the flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ. Saint Eugenia's mother and brothers buried her holy relics with honor in one of the fields outside of the city, in a place called the Roman Road. It was in this place that the saint previously interred other sacred relics of the saints. The modest and noble-minded Eugenia led a remarkable and praiseworthy manner of life. She was also counted worthy of great glory by our Lord, God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

The Great Synaxaristes, December 24th, Holy Virgin-martyr Evgenia, pp. 961-962

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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Re: Was Christ Born on Dec. 25th? ( ...and on which Dec. 25th?)

Post by Jean-Serge »

timothyvargas wrote:

There are holy fathers who say Christ was born in November, December and even March, so there does not seem to be a consensus of the fathers as to the exact date, nor is Dec. 25 made dogma by an Ecumenical Council that I have found. Perhaps someone can find it and post it here?

Could you give us your sources. Which Fathers say it was in:

  • November
  • December
  • March

Do you have the titles of their writings about this?

Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.

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Re: Was Christ Born on Dec. 25th? ( ...and on which Dec. 25th?)

Post by Cyprian »

Christ is born! Glorify Him!

Christ the Lord, according to tradition, was in fact born on December 25th, which was a Sunday, at the time of the winter solstice. On the first day of the week, God said, "Let there be light". So it was only fitting that Christ the Light of the world chose His birth to occur on the first day of the week.

The Holy Virgin conceived Christ by the Holy Spirit 276 days prior, on March 25th, which was a Friday, at the time of the vernal (Spring) equinox. Creation is also said to have taken place at this time, when the first Adam was said to be created on March 25th. So the second Adam was conceived on the same day as the first Adam was created.

As St. Luke witnesses, St. John the Baptist was born six months prior to Christ, on June 24th, at the time of the summer solstice. St. John's holy conception is celebrated by the Church on September 23rd, which is the autumnal equinox.

So the four seasons (Spring / Summer / Fall / Winter) are all marked by the holy conceptions and nativities of Christ and His Forerunner.

St. John the Baptizer stated: "He [Christ] must increase, but I must decrease." (St. John 3.30)

Christ was conceived in the womb of the Virgin by the Holy Spirit on March 25th, at the time of the vernal (spring) equinox--meaning equal days and nights of 12 hours. This is when the blossoms appear and foliage begins to increase.
St. John was conceived at the time of the autumnal equinox (September 23), where once again the days and nights are equal in length at 12 hours. In the time of Autumn, the trees begin to decrease and lose their foliage.
Christ, was born at the time of the winter solstice when the daylight is shortest and darkness prevails, for Christ is the Light of the world, and men were in darkness when He came into the world.
St. John was born at the time of the summer solstice, the longest day of the year, when the days begin to decrease or grow shorter.

"He must increase, but I must decrease."

St. Zacharias, the father of St. John the Baptist, was the high priest and was executing his duties on the day of expiation or "Yom Kippur"--the day of atonement of the Jews. All of Israel was required to gather at the temple on this day, and only the high priest was allowed to enter the holy of holies and offer up prayer on behalf of the nation. As everyone can readily discover, the Jews of our day celebrate Yom Kippur around the end of September, i.e. the seventh (sept) month.

Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord. And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the Lord your God. (Leviticus 23.27-28)

So the seventh month, September, was when St. Zacharias fulfilled his duties as high priest, and after his days were accomplished, St. Elizabeth miraculously conceived St. John the Forerunner. Christ was conceived six months later, in the Spring.

5 THERE was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
7 And they had no child, because that Elisabeth was barren, and they both were now well stricken in years.
8 And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course,
9 According to the custom of the priest's office, his lot was to burn incense when he went into the temple of the Lord.
10 And the whole multitude of the people were praying without at the time of incense.

11 And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.
12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him.
13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
18 And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
19 And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.
20 And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season.
21 And the people waited for Zacharias, and marvelled that he tarried so long in the temple.
22 And when he came out, he could not speak unto them: and they perceived that he had seen a vision in the temple: for he beckoned unto them, and remained speechless.
23 And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his ministration were accomplished, he departed to his own house.
24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,
25 Thus hath the Lord dealt with me in the days wherein he looked on me, to take away my reproach among men.
26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

So as we can see, the Scripture itself testifies that St. John was conceived at the end of September (September 23rd), six months before Christ, who was conceived March 25th.

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