Nativity Epistle of Met. Valentine of Suzdal and Vladimir

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Andrej
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Re: Nativity Epistle of Met. Valentine of Suzdal and Vladimir

Post by Andrej »

Priest Siluan wrote:

CHRISTMAS EPISTLE FROM METROPOLITAN VALENTINE OF SUZDAL AND VLADIMIR, CHIEF HIERARCH OF THE RUSSIAN ORTHODOX AUTONOMOUS CHURCH, TO HIS FELLOW ARCHPASTORS, PASTORS, THOSE IN THE GOD-LOVING MONASTIC ORDERS, AND ALL OF THE FAITHFUL CHILDREN OF THE CHURCH OF CHRIST

At that time, two thousand years ago, according to the witness of our Lord’s favorite Apostle, John the Theologian, the Light of Truth “came to His own, but His own received Him not.” (John 1:11). The leadership of the Jewish nation, which was aware of the many prophecies and revelations concerning the coming Savior of the world, did not recognize Him in the cave in Bethlehem, and King Herod, after conferring with the priests and doctors of the law, gave a command to kill all male infants in Bethlehem and in the surrounding area, who were two years old or under.

Is there somewere a source?
Matthew 2 tells it different in my eyes:

3When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
4And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
5And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
6And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
7Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared. 8And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.
9When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.
10When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.
11And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.
12And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way. 13And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
14When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
15And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men. Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying,
18In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.

So acc. verse 12 the originally consulted wise men refused to bring Jesus to Herod and "departed into their own country another way".
On the other hand ther is no hint that other wise men as priests and doctors assisted the decision of Herod re. the murdiring of the childs of Bethlehem.

Did I oversee something? Is there another source in the scriptures re. this event?

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Re: Nativity Epistle of Met. Valentine of Suzdal and Vladimir

Post by Priest Siluan »

"When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born." (Matthew. 2:3-4)

He (Herod) ask them about where Christ should be born.

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Re: Nativity Epistle of Met. Valentine of Suzdal and Vladimir

Post by Priest Siluan »

Andrej wrote:

On the other hand ther is no hint that other wise men as priests and doctors assisted the decision of Herod re. the murdiring of the childs of Bethlehem.

Of Course, they dint assist the decision of Herod about killing the Childs of Bethlehem, they only said him where Christ was born, but Herod come to this sad conclusion.

Met. Valentine wrote: "...а царь Ирод, посовещавшись со священниками и книжниками, приказал умертвить всех младенцев мужского пола во всей Вифлеемской округе в возрасте от двух лет и меньше. "

My humble translation: "... and the Kind Herod, having deliberated with the priests and the scholars (Lit: "Bibliophiles"), has ordered to murder all male infants in the Bethlehem district , who were two years old or under."

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Re: Nativity Epistle of Met. Valentine of Suzdal and Vladimir

Post by Andrej »

Priest Siluan wrote:
Andrej wrote:

On the other hand ther is no hint that other wise men as priests and doctors assisted the decision of Herod re. the murdiring of the childs of Bethlehem.

Of Course, they dint assist the decision of Herod about killing the Childs of Bethlehem, they only said him where Christ was born, but Herod come to this sad conclusion.

Met. Valentine wrote: "...а царь Ирод, посовещавшись со священниками и книжниками, приказал умертвить всех младенцев мужского пола во всей Вифлеемской округе в возрасте от двух лет и меньше. "

My humble translation: "... and the Kind Herod, having deliberated with the priests and the scholars (Lit: "Bibliophiles"), has ordered to murder all male infants in the Bethlehem district , who were two years old or under."

In the cited sermon it is later asked:

It is especially difficult to admit, that, just as in the days of the earthly life of our Savior, the so-called “official religion” of our time is playing a hugely negative role in the general apostasy of the modern world, in contrast to its supposed call for people to come to God. Who was it that called out to Pilate more fervently than anyone else to crucify the Savior? Who was it that advised Herod to kill the infant boys of Bethlehem?

So there seems to be a suggestion that the "official religion", i.e. the former mentioned "doctors and priest of the law" had indeed advised "to kill the infant boys of Bethlehem".
While I agree absolutely with the statement of the sermon re. the "official religion" in general and the mentioned parallels between today and crucial events in the scriptures the link to the child murder in Bethlehem seems to be questionable for me.
Bethlehem was for me more an exeption were "high representants" behaved good - here due to "being warned of God in a dream".

Despite this detail the basic statement re. the role of the "official religion" is right of course.

I liked the following 2 statements:

"When we speak about the “Jewish masses,” which did not accept Christ, we mean the whole contemporary unbelieving world, which lies in darkness."

"This is just what happened to us in Russia, where the atheistic revolution of 1917 took place not only, and not so much, because some external forces fomented agitation and led the people astray, but most of all, because our church herself, having merged together with the government, ceased being the “salt of the earth,” the conscience of the nation, and became more and more reminiscent of some kind of financial institution."

It is the 1st time were I read that a orthodox hierarch looks for roots for the aggressive atheism in the history of the church itself, even in the "good old times". The "merging with the goverment" and the development to a "financial institution" (parallel to western churches) are likely to be such roots.

I thought in the last days a lot about the statements of Joanna, which point imhO - independent of this special sermon - to further roots.

In Christ

Andrej

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Re: Nativity Epistle of Met. Valentine of Suzdal and Vladimir

Post by Ephrem »

On this endlessly bright and light-bearing day, there is only one thing to which I would like to call you. Do not be discouraged that there are so few of us; that our Church is persecuted; and that we have no earthly glory or power. Even if you find that you are completely alone, do not fall away from the True Church; do not succumb to the temptation of the sparkle and mightiness of the Moscow Patriarchate and other heretical churches, which have fallen away from Orthodoxy into the heresy of ecumenism.

This is a very important spiritual message to the sons and daughters of our Russian Orthodox Autonomous Church right now. The Moscow Patriarchate has recently managed to take away even more of our churches, so that all of the faithful in Suzdal must meet in Metropolitan Valentine's home chapel. They are even trying to take his home now, so that there will be nowhere to worship. It is expected that they will soon try to arrest Metropolitan Valentine again.

In the face of all these persecutions, some of our Russian clergy have felt they have no choice but to defect to the MP. This is the only way for them to get money for their families and it is their only protection against outright brutality. It is very sad, but it is happening, and we must pray for those who have succumbed to this persecution.

All of the resources of the state-run Moscow Patriarchate are being directed against the faithful True Orthodox Christians, dare I say confessors, of Suzdal. Truly, the faithful there have been blessed to suffer for the Lord! Yet, we must pray that they be delivered from their sufferings, even as the Church directs us to pray in our morning petitions. I think Vladyka Metropolitan's epistle is very important, because it is a courageous message to a persecuted Church, and it shows that while we are yet poor, while our persecutors are luxurious, we have riches still! Such riches that they cannot be counted, and stored where no thief can steal it and no moth nor rust can wither it away! Those riches are the spiritual pearls of the True Orthodox Church, which in these latter days God has allowed to be persecuted for the sanctification of the faithful and to the Glory of His Name. Amen.

I hope this makes the Metropolitan's epistle more coherent for some.

Ephrem Cummings, Subdeacon
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Re: Nativity Epistle of Met. Valentine of Suzdal and Vladimir

Post by Priest Siluan »

Dear in Christ Ephrem:

You have explained better than me, the very sad "background" of this epistle. I hope your words will help to understand it better.

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