Moderator: Mark Templet
Fr. Elia's jumping ship to HOCNA is not a jurisdictional switch? We can post the dialog between Fr. Elia and others questioning him about the shopping around of your Metropolitan to find a "world orthodox" jurisdiction to accept your Synod.
Indeed, Fr. Elia's departure should have been fresh meat for NFTU - just as this latest development should be with how your American wing of Milan is dealing with the current "embarrassment".
Don't tell me you don't see my point!
priest_Steven wrote:Indeed, Fr. Elia's departure should have been fresh meat for NFTU - just as this latest development should be with how your American wing of Milan is dealing with the current "embarrassment".
- Fr. S
My word, once the Pinkos elevated you, you're a lot more verbose with your attacks. "Fresh meat"? Is this a joke? Do you see NFTU as hungry dogs looking for the next leftover chicken out of the dumpster?
Considering Fr Elia wanted to deal with it privately I respected his wishes. You really don't know the inside of what happened there, and I really don't see a need to discuss it. If he wants to slam on us as a member of HOCNA now, well, sadly, some in HOCNA promote that thinking. Others don't.
I see you want to bring up more Paradosis list posts. As we know, Paradosis is moderated by clergy of the Moscow Patriarchate (it wasn't always, but has been for a few years.) There are really few True Orthodox venues that have stayed firmly that way, but this has been one of them. So has NFTU. I personally am glad that Fr Anastasios and Jonathan kept this site going now. I see it bothers the daylights out of you guys that you don't have an iota of control here.
But thanks for reminding me. I was going to ask something on the forum and I forgot.
Fr Joseph Suaidan (Suaiden, same guy)
You said: You said I was acting like a KGB agent, yet you support a church formed by them, and I'm doing the bait and switch?
Give me a break.
Me: Tell us about the reports given by your own defectors who exposed Milan's request to join this alleged "KGB" formed Church.
You said: I said-- at the outset of this discussion you quoted-- that we were resolving this internally, and my wife stated on Paradosis that the results will be on NFTU.
Me: Unacceptable. Cover the story!
You said: NFTU has ignored other TOC news items as well, from other jurisdictions, by request from hierarchs and clergy who felt people would be needlessly hurt. Are you saying I can't grant that to my own Church? Give me a break.
Me: Dear readers here we have the bottom line. NFTU simply does not extend the same care when posting from any source available when attacking the Church yet here we have a bold admission that NFTU does at the request of some TOC hierarchs to cover up TOC news.
By your own admission you confirm my point.
priest_Steven wrote:You said: You said I was acting like a KGB agent, yet you support a church formed by them, and I'm doing the bait and switch?
Give me a break.Me: Tell us about the reports given by your own defectors who exposed Milan's request to join this alleged "KGB" formed Church.
Those defectors in fact did join that same KGB-formed Church.
Me: Unacceptable. Cover the story!
Why? Because Fr Steven Webb, the defender of the Soviets and ecumenists, says so? Don't make me laugh there, Cheka, you can't put me in jail here. 
None of us at NFTU answer to you, and as general editor, allow me this opportunity to say in my best George Sr voice, "nope, not gonna do it". How's that?
Me: Dear readers here we have the bottom line. NFTU simply does not extend the same care when posting from any source available when attacking the Church yet here we have a bold admission that NFTU does at the request of some TOC hierarchs to cover TOC news.
My, my. How the tables have turned. Of course, we respect the wishes of all TOC Bishops and clergy and often take reportage into consideration. I personally ask some of them myself. It is a TRUE ORTHODOX and ECUMENICAL NEWS site. Now you come on this forum (a TRADITIONAL ORTHODOX forum) and pretend that you are "exposing" me? "Exposing" NFTU? (scary....) This may shock you, but most of our readers are True Orthodox curious about what is going on in their world, their neighbors', and the ecumenists. Most of them already know my position and understand my logic. I am not going to "dig up dirt" on True Orthodox hierarchs while your spin doctors are wiping dirt off the ecumenists! If something important that is a scandal happens, we will report it. But the truth is we don't have nearly as many scandals, because we aren't as big and heretical as, say, your church.
NFTU, E-Cafe and a few other places have raised the bar for dialogue between Traditional Orthodox Christians. It's not always perfect, but they are places where Traditional Orthodox people don't have to hear a chorus of World Orthodox shills telling them they are "crazy" for not putting up with widespread ecumenism and wholesale attacks on Holy Tradition.
I am sorry to tell you this, Fr Steven, but this is one forum where frankly I can tell you that you and Fr Ambrose are in the wrong place. World Orthodox trying to get us to attack each other (or in this bizarre case ourselves) don't last long here.
This isn't the Paradosis list.
Fr Joseph Suaidan (Suaiden, same guy)
Suaiden wrote:priest_Steven wrote:Indeed, Fr. Elia's departure should have been fresh meat for NFTU - just as this latest development should be with how your American wing of Milan is dealing with the current "embarrassment".
- Fr. S
My word, once the Pinkos elevated you, you're a lot more verbose with your attacks. "Fresh meat"? Is this a joke? Do you see NFTU as hungry dogs looking for the next leftover chicken out of the dumpster?
Considering Fr Elia wanted to deal with it privately I respected his wishes. You really don't know the inside of what happened there, and I really don't see a need to discuss it. If he wants to slam on us as a member of HOCNA now, well, sadly, some in HOCNA promote that thinking. Others don't.
I see you want to bring up more Paradosis list posts. As we know, Paradosis is moderated by clergy of the Moscow Patriarchate (it wasn't always, but has been for a few years.) There are really few True Orthodox venues that have stayed firmly that way, but this has been one of them. So has NFTU. I personally am glad that Fr Anastasios and Jonathan kept this site going now. I see it bothers the daylights out of you guys that you don't have an iota of control here.
But thanks for reminding me. I was going to ask something on the forum and I forgot.
Your personal attacks against me clearly show your position in this discussion. Let's just keep to the subject matter, if you are able. No doubt I am attacking the subject which is NFTU and how it operates BUT you don't see me attacking your "elevation" do you? Of course not. If you want to attack my jurisdiction in context to this discussion I will not complain. I can answer any of these charges. Expect the same from me and I am will be very interested in your response in defense.
Also, Paradosis in not moderated by "MP" clergy and I will bring up posts from that list and others as they pertain to the subject matter of this discussion. Be patient. You will get your chance to address each point for the edification of our readers here.
Also I have no problem at all with this site. I am in complete "control" over my posts as long as I follow the rules here. As it should be. You are the one who seems quite worked up, insulting my clerical status. If my disgust at the way NFTU BLATANTLY covers up TOC news at the request of their heirarchs (you just admitted to this) while bending over backwards to spin for slander against the Church, well that is for you to deal with.
priest_Steven wrote:Your personal attacks against me clearly show your position in this discussion. Let's just keep to the subject matter, if you are able. No doubt I am attacking the subject which is NFTU and how it operates BUT you don't see me attacking your "elevation" do you? Of course not. If you want to attack my jurisdiction in context to this discussion I will not complain. I can answer any of these charges. Expect the same from me and I am will be very interested in your response in defense.
Fr Steven, many of us watched your transformation on the Paradosis list. First you were an ardent defender of Metropolitan Agafangel. Then you went back and within a few months you were elevated to the Diaconate. Now you are a priest, having attacked every opponent of union with great care. It's as though you are free to do nothing but argue. Never have I seen someone with such an ideological shift ordained so quickly. If I was a more suspicious person I'd say those things might even be related?
Also, Paradosis in not moderated by "MP" clergy and I will bring up posts from that list and others as they pertain to the subject matter of this discussion. Be patient. You will get your chance to address each point for the edification of our readers here.
Paradosis, if I recall correctly, is run by Seraphim Patterson and one or two priests of the ROCOR-MP. Unfortunately, I have no idea what the inside really looks like now. The outside (and my own almost immediate moderation my last time there) is enough of a clue for me to not rejoin.
I don't think you understand me. Get my "chance"? Do you now think you are in charge of the E-cafe? Last I checked, it was still owned by clergy and laypeople of the TOC of Greece. I'll speak when I see a need. Not by your "moderation", sir.
Also I have no problem at all with this site.
You shouldn't. You've only been here a few hours, apparently to argue about this post.
I am in complete "control" over my posts as long as I follow the rules here. As it should be. You are the one who seems quite worked up, insulting my clerical status. If my disgust at the way NFTU BLATANTLY covers up TOC news at the request of their heirarchs (you just admitted to this) while bending over backwards to spin for slander against the Church, well that is for you to deal with.
Frankly, I don't trust the authenticity of your clerical status because of what I stated above. I am saying flatly I personally believe you were ordained for propaganda purposes, so you could speak with more "authority". Who knows? Maybe you're an excellent celebrant and your gifts were only recognized just as you came to ROCOR-H.
To me, the TOC throughout the world is the Church. What you consider the Church is not what I consider the Church. So your statement makes no sense.
Fr Joseph Suaidan (Suaiden, same guy)
You said: Fr Steven, many of us watched your transformation on the Paradosis list. First you were an ardent defender of Metropolitan Agafangel. Then you went back and within a few months you were elevated to the Diaconate. Now you are a priest, having attacked every opponent of union with great care. It's as though you are free to do nothing but argue. Never have I seen someone with such an ideological shift ordained so quickly. If I was a more suspicious person I'd say those things might even be related.
Me: What a shameless bunch of uninformed falsehood you churn out in an attempt to change the subject. Herein lies the root of your problem.
You must not have been watching too closely Fr. Deacon because it was + Agafangel HIMSELF almost two years ago who ordained me a deacon! Our St. Pete Church needed a deacon and they asked me to take upon this responsibility. This responsibility was still needed when we were in ROCOR before our very short trip with PSCA so your info is twaddle.
No, your conspiracy dream is unfounded. One more piece of evidence to the kind of attention you put into your "reporting". No doubt you will try to keep this diversion going to cover up the subject matter of this thread. I guess you will just flip positions and try now to discredit my ordination from some other direction. You should simply be a respectable cleric, accept your error, apologize and get back on track.
You: Paradosis, if I recall correctly, is run by Seraphim Patterson and one or two priests of the ROCOR-MP. Unfortunately, I have no idea what the inside really looks like now. The outside (and my own almost immediate moderation my last time there) is enough of a clue for me to not rejoin.
Me: I am not aware of any other moderator than Seraphim. It is his list.
You: I don't think you understand me. Get my "chance"? Do you now think you are in charge of the E-cafe? Last I checked, it was still owned by clergy and laypeople of the TOC of Greece. I'll speak when I see a need. Not by your "moderation", sir.
Me: I don't seek to moderate you but when you move forward with shamelessly false information about my ordination this will not stand.
Me: I am in complete "control" over my posts as long as I follow the rules here. As it should be. You are the one who seems quite worked up, insulting my clerical status. If my disgust at the way NFTU BLATANTLY covers up TOC news at the request of their heirarchs (you just admitted to this) while bending over backwards to spin for slander against the Church, well that is for you to deal with.
You: Frankly, I don't trust the authenticity of your clerical status because of what I stated above. I am saying flatly I personally believe you were ordained for propaganda purposes, so you could speak with more "authority". Who knows? Maybe you're an excellent celebrant and your gifts were only recognized just as you came to ROCOR-H.
Me: Frankly, you build many of your false assumptions based on such incorrect observations, both about people and the Church. This shows up on NFTU and you now parade your ignorance here for all to see. All while trying to change the subject of your selective cover-ups which in fact makes YOU guilty of what you charge me with. You have proven yourself to be a shameless propagandist even admitting here you cover up stories at the request of various TOC hierarchs which could be problems for TOC.
You: To me, the TOC throughout the world is the Church. What you consider the Church is not what I consider the Church. So your statement makes no sense.
Me: It should make sense to you. Your own Metropolitan petitioned the MP and long list of other so-called "world orthodox" Churches yet you commemorate him as your master. Behold your own contradiction. You are just full of inconsistencies and contradictions. According to your working ecclesiastical practice it is perfectly fine to have as your master one who thinks otherwise about where the Church is??