Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

[priest_Steven]

Fr. Joseph you are doing a bait and switch tactic on this item. The news need not be the DETAILS of the "internal investigation". The NEWS is that Milan is undergoing an investigation of the ecumenistic statement from your Metropolitan. NFTU is ignoring this major TOC news item for obvious reasons.

Another major aspect of the NEWS item are your own comments on this thread. Don't you digest the implications of your own words on this item? Look at what you have already told us about what is happening with Milan because of this:

1) Those who are strict in their confession of faith and unsatisfied in our Synod *** will join another True Orthodox jurisdiction ***, which is our responsibility, and which I hope will leave them more satisfied in spirit. I also hope the Synod's resolution will be satisfactory enough that they will still look upon us in friendship later.

Add this to your own hierodeacon's statements on the outset and you something far more newsworhy than most of the stuff you post of NFTU.

• Fr. S

[Suaidan]

Fr. Joseph you are doing a bait and switch tactic on this item. The news need not be the DETAILS of the "internal investigation". The NEWS is that Milan is undergoing an investigation of the ecumenistic statement from your Metropolitan. NFTU is ignoring this major TOC news item for obvious reasons.

You said I was acting like a KGB agent, yet you support a church formed by them, and I'm doing the bait and switch? Give me a break. I said-- at the outset of this discussion you quoted-- that we were resolving this internally, and my wife stated on Paradosis that the results will be on NFTU. NFTU has ignored other TOC news items as well, from other jurisdictions, by request from hierarchs and clergy who felt people would be needlessly hurt. Are you saying I can't grant that to my own Church? Give me a break.

Another major aspect of the NEWS item are your own comments on this thread. Don't you digest the implications of your own words on this item? Look at what you have already told us about what is happening with Milan because of this:
1) Those who are strict in their confession of faith and unsatisfied in our Synod *** will join another True Orthodox jurisdiction ***, which is our responsibility, and which I hope will leave them more satisfied in spirit. I also hope the Synod's resolution will be satisfactory enough that they will still look upon us in friendship later.

So what? I meant that. I also used future tense ("will join", not "are joining".) Some might feel we aren't moving fast enough. . Some might be frustrated for other reasons. Fr Elia went to HOCNA, for example. Are we (in Milan Synod, not NFTU) upset he left? Of course. But if this is resolved in a way that makes clergy who would leave realize they jumped the gun, and look at us positively later, well, then, we will have accomplished something. Sometimes it takes months. But we do resolve things. Sometimes the answer is satisfactory to all, sometimes not.

In this case, my prediction is not based on anything directly related to the investigation at all. All of these things you are reading into it are assumptions, because you don't know what I am doing-- or what our Synod's doing-- and you won't find out from me. Apologies, my Cheka friend!

[Suaidan]

Petition to the Ecumenical Patriarchate to Excommunicate Vassula Ryden
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=14650493181

Beyond belief.

So the truth comes out that you covered up the fact that a World Orthodox jurisdiction excommunicated this flaming heretic when she wasn't under them but under another Patriarchate which embraces her, trying both to discredit the news story and HIDE yet ANOTHER concelebration between your sister church and Papists, who is under a Patriarchate that has guidelines for concelebration with Monophysites and where concelebrations are a regular occurrence... and all you've got is some Facebook petition.

A Facebook petition?

And not a formal petition, but one started by someone who obviously isn't a cleric, a random person fighting from within, a petition that has just two members less than the "petition to bring back Hubba Bubba soda" (yum!)

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33369246559

Ah, "fighting from within". From my vantage point looks kind of like "cover up and mislead".

[priest_Steven]

You said: None of the three possibilities are a crisis for me. They are an embarrassing situation.

Me: Your actions and that of the hierodeacon show that this is a crisis. Father read your own words posted on this thread. Your estimations about schism within your own jurisdiction show that this is no light matter. That, combined with your own embarrassment, explains why NFTU will not cover this.

For someone like yourself who makes a 24-7 effort of "exposing" all manor of "ecumenism" your spin in trying to play this off as "no big deal" is very understandable.

Again this NEWS item should be front and center for a blog which covers even a hint of ecumenism that can be spun out any piece written from any source. As long as it slanders the Church it is fit to print on NFTU!

• Fr. S

[Suaidan]

You said: None of the three possibilities are a crisis for me. They are an embarrassing situation.

Me: Your actions and that of the hierodeacon show that this is a crisis. Father read your own words posted on this thread. Your estimations about schism within your own jurisdiction show that this is no light matter. That, combined with your own embarrassment, explains why NFTU will not cover this.

My actions? Fr Augustine's? What-- banning Fr Ambrose and Fr Aidan from OrthodoxWest means there's a crisis? Is this some sort of joke? If I found an embarrassing document (or someone gave one to me) incriminating any TOC hierarch, I would ask members of their jurisdiction what it is. Privately. Usually it is something that is dealt with or being dealt with. I don't report it.

For someone like yourself who makes a 24-7 effort of "exposing" all manor of "ecumenism" your spin in trying to play this off as "no big deal" is very understandable.

I believe you mean "manner". The "manor of ecumenism" would be the Phanar.

All I can say is: Huh? Are you now comparing a questionable letter written five years ago to hierarchs you believe are "the Orthodox Church" advising them to concelebrating with Papists?

Again this NEWS item should be front and center for a blog which covers even a hint of ecumenism that can be spun out any piece written from any source. As long as it slanders the Church it is fit to print on NFTU!

We've also covered anti-ecumenist movements in World Orthodoxy, and watched them fail. But your last sentence is telling. You think I am "slandering the Church". If you believe World Orthodoxy to be the Church, fine. But let's be clear. We get our stuff from news articles around the world. Your Church is doing a fine job of slandering itself.

We just report it. Sorry we make the job of the spin-doctors trying to kill dozens of ecumenical stories a month just a wee bit harder.

[priest_Steven]

Fr. Joseph why is it not news about the many clerics who have recently left Milan? After all, you post departures from so-called "world orthodoxy" when they happen yet, for example, Fr. Elia's departure from Milan over your own Synod's ecumenism again is over looked. Then there are the others who have left Milan. Not a peep from NFTU but somebody leaves so-called "world orthodoxy" and it's front page news.

Your spin and gloss is glaring!

• Fr. S

[Suaidan]

Fr. Joseph why is it not news about the many clerics who have recently left Milan? After all, you post departures from so-called "world orthodoxy" when they happen yet, for example, Fr. Elia's departure from Milan over your own Synod's ecumenism again is over looked. Then there are the others who have left Milan. Not a peep from NFTU but somebody leaves so-called "world orthodoxy" and it's front page news.

• Fr. S

That's not true. We generally do not cover World Orthodox clerics who become Protestants or Roman Catholics, which is also very common, especially in the Western Rite vicariate. It was also not "many clerics". As far as I can see, we've had exactly two active clerics leave in a year: Fr Cuthbert (Pierce), taken in by your Metropolitan Hilarion (Fr Augustine Whitfield has been retired for a decade, I believe) and Fr Elia. We've also had one priest join, and a couple of new elevations, and one priest returning. If I understand correctly, one priest who left Milan over alleged "ecumenism" in Europe just came back, too.

Clergy leaving and coming back are generally not news, but jurisdictional switches often are. Even then, we don't cover all of them but occasionally, if I contact them, they want to make an announcement. Some don't. Do you have a particular case in mind?

Don't confuse the polish of quality with "spin and gloss".

Correction: Fr Cuthbert left two years ago. My error. Time flies as you get older, I guess!