Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

[Hieromonk Ambrose]

my bet is that it annoys to no end both you and your student, Fr Aidan, that you can't seem to find out what's going on.

Dear Father Deacon,

Whatever internal processes you have initiated to handle the heresy and the gross ecumenism of the Encyclical is naturally your internal business and who would expect it to be open to outsiders? Why should we be annoyed by a quite correct way of handling problems? Naturally we await with interest the conclusion of your investigation and whether your Church will allow the Metropolitan to continue in office in light of the Encyclical.

But the main point, and one on which Fr Aidan and myself completely agree with you and Father Dcn Augustine is that the Encyclical is heretical. It is on that that we should focus this thread and not on a mountain of words on rather peripheral issues such as who is annoyed etc.

Besides the false claim that Fr Augustine is counselling Bishops and priests to stop commemorating the Metropolitan.

It is not a false claim, Father Deacon, Here, again,are the words of Fr Hierodeacon Augustine:

Hierodcn Augustine (Fetter):
Now that we have proof of a document, and investigation underway, and until
this is resolved, I'd never go to a Liturgy in which Met. Evloghios name is
commemorated. Nor would any bishop or priest who knows what the situation is
commemorate him. Draw your own conclusion about what that means in American
Archdiocese now.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrthodoxW ... sage/20367

-oOo-

[Suaidan]

my bet is that it annoys to no end both you and your student, Fr Aidan, that you can't seem to find out what's going on.

Dear Father Deacon,

Whatever internal processes you have initiated to handle the heresy and the gross ecumenism of the Encyclical is naturally your internal business and who would expect it to be open to outsiders? Why should we be annoyed by a quite correct way of handling problems? Naturally we await with interest the conclusion of your investigation and whether your Church will allow the Metropolitan to continue in office in light of the Encyclical.

[/quote]

Wow. Once you start lying it seems you can't stop. Your only interest is to cause chaos and maximum damage to our Church! We knew all along that certain clergy, when they abandoned the Synod, cited you and Fr Aidan as the reasons they left. Think I don't keep track? Think I haven't made a few claims to you to see how they would "move up the chain"? You play the same game with members of the ROCOR-A, and even fewer of them believe the careful misrepresentations you present ("ROCOR never changed", for example).

You can fool people on the Paradosis list, which is now basically overrun by ROCOR-MP clergy and a few stalwart exceptions, but here? No. We aren't so silly. I'm quite happy to speak here.

But the main point, and one on which Fr Aidan and myself completely agree with you and Father Dcn Augustine is that the Encyclical is heretical.

But you are in communion with those same heretics. So you have no basis to state that you can agree with us. That encyclical is heretical, but we are not in communion with any of you, so whatever happens with us, we are not in communion with the heretics in the letter. You are. So is Father Aidan. And you both know it and can pretend otherwise.

Just more lies.

Besides the false claim that Fr Augustine is counselling Bishops and priests to stop commemorating the Metropolitan.

It is not a false claim, Father Deacon, Here, again,are the words of Fr Hierodeacon Augustine:

Hierodcn Augustine (Fetter):
Now that we have proof of a document, and investigation underway, and until
this is resolved, I'd never go to a Liturgy in which Met. Evloghios name is
commemorated. Nor would any bishop or priest who knows what the situation is
commemorate him. Draw your own conclusion about what that means in American
Archdiocese now.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrthodoxW ... sage/20367

-oOo-

Again, he corrected himself and said "something will be done". He didn't say what and you can't extrapolate it from an angry first reaction, though you are pretending you can! You don't know what he is doing, what I'm doing, what the Metropolitan or Archbishop John or any of us are doing, you don't know who is being commemorated or what we are doing. And you have no idea what is going on. It's why you are going on any forum you can find to talk about this to keep pressing, perhaps to find someone else who will ask us, not obviously connected with you.

They will get the same answer. And if you do find out, we already know how.

See, I learned a lot from watching Catacombniks in Russia. Specifically, how to guard against KGB agents.

Now stop lying.

[Hieromonk Ambrose]

You continued on other lists

Point of order here. After a blackout of any discussion of the Encyclical was put in place on the e-list OrthodoxWest by Fr Augustine and yourself, the topic meandered over to Orthodox-Tradition. People wanted to discuss it, naturally. That is the only list (other than OrthodoxWest) where I have been discussing the Encylical, with your wife and with other people.

I suggest that a healthy and civilised discussion is far better than imposing blackouts. And after all, your informative website NFTU which is the world's premier site for information on ecumenism does not refuse to discuss things until official investigations have been completed and and official reports issued. It is right there on top of things.

[Suaidan]

You continued on other lists

Point of order here.

Overruled. You yourself and Father Aidan alone have been promoting the discussion of this topic, repeatedly. You have uploaded it to multiple servers. It was premeditated and was not accidental. You also discussed it on Occidentalis before moving to Paradosis. Stop lying. You also falsely claimed I was a co-moderator on OrthodoxWest. Again, stop lying.

NFTU is a news site. We don't discuss 5-year old news.

[Hieromonk Ambrose]

Wow. Once you start lying it seems you can't stop. Your only interest is to cause chaos and maximum damage to our Church!

Father, please, this is embarrassing. The wild accusations and the ad hominems.

If any chaos and damage is occurring in your Church it is the result of the Encyclical of Metropolitan Evloghios which both you and I, and Fr Augustine, have said is heretical and ecumenist.

Honestly, I would prefer not to correspond with you if all I am subjected to is a string of ad hominems.

[Suaidan]

Wow. Once you start lying it seems you can't stop. Your only interest is to cause chaos and maximum damage to our Church!

Father, please, this is embarrassing. The wild accusations and the ad hominems.

So stop.

If any chaos and damage is occurring in your Church it is the result of the Encyclical of Metropolitan Evloghios....

I never said any chaos and damage is occurring. I said that was your intent.

Telling.

Honestly, I would prefer not to correspond with you if all I am subjected to is a string of ad hominems.

You signed yourself on. I think you signed yourself on specifically for this topic (your only posts so far). You have proved my original point in spades.

If you prefer to not correspond with me, stop answering my posts.

[Hieromonk Ambrose]

Overruled. You yourself and Father Aidan alone have been promoting the discussion of this topic, repeatedly. You have uploaded it to multiple servers. It was premeditated and was not accidental. You also discussed it on Occidentalis before moving to Paradosis.

There was a message on Occidentalis. Father Aidan stepped in and stopped the discussion, pointing out that Occidentalis is dedicated to the discussion of Western Rite.

Stop lying. You also falsely claimed I was a co-moderator on OrthodoxWest. Again, stop lying.

Apologies. Somebody mentioned on Orthodox-Traditon that you also moderated OrthodoxWest.

But, Father, all you are doing in your mountain of words is pushing trival things to the fore and avoiding the heart of the matter -the heresy of the Encyclical.