Questions

[Macrina]

I have titled my thread as "Questions", because as a layperson of a traditional Orthodox church, I have questions.

If you are an Orthodox group in schism with all of the patriarchates, how long can you remain in schism before being considered a broken off branch, so to speak? And/or loosing recognition of any apostolic succession from within such a group as in schism with all patriarchates?

Jesus said to let the tares grow with the wheat until He comes and sorts them. It would seem many Orthodox are trying to do the job themselves.

Last year when my bishop came to visit our lil mission church, I made sure to take a picture of him with my family there. That picture will go into my family's genealogy as a historic moment. Historic, because it took a thousand years for the eastern church to give us a bishop. Sound crazy, I think so too. However, back when our family gave the church land with a monastery and school that stood for a thousand years, the eastern church never gave us any bishops, we were only given abbots.
Are politics more important than caring for those of us who want our churches to be there for us to raise our children in. Islam is still a threat to our faith. The fight is now from within (demographics of immigration and population growth) our own countries and families. Muslims do not need swords or terrorism to infiltrate our society and overcome it. They only need to let the church lie down and let them take it from us. I think they have enough of our churches.
Can you tell I'm a Frankish/Germanic descendant who is tired of waiting for the church, tired of fighting off Islam, and tired of the Greeks and Latins?
Please tell me there is something positive about the Orthodox church that I can tell my children and grandchildren. Or do they wind up with no church for a thousand years or more because of infighting among Orthodox Christians.

[nun.xenia]

If you are an Orthodox group in schism with all of the patriarchates, how long can you remain in schism before being considered a broken off branch, so to speak? And/or loosing recognition of any apostolic succession from within such a group as in schism with all patriarchates?

Dear Macrina,

Nobody knows this except for God and those in God. But definitely those people (in a falling group or in a society without True Church) will be judged differently, not as those who live near True bishops and parishes.

Another question (probably) is why God allows so many people to stay without a church for ages. God knows the reason and we do not know it. If some society chooses other things, not Him, He can treat it His way. But I believe He can find the ways for those who need Him:

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (The Book of Isaiah, 55:8-9)

I just know that you and me have a lot of Mercy from God to have true Bishops and the Church. So, we should try to be good.

nun Xenia, Russia

[GOCPriestMark]

Regarding "removing the tares", St Gregory Palamas explains that the angels (servants in the Gospel) were asking to take the 'tares' by death:

When the Lord's servants, God's angels, saw the tares in the field, that is to say, godless and evil people living alongside the good, and sharing in the life of Christ's Church, they said to the Lord, "Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?" (Matt. 13:28), in other words, Shall we remove them from the earth through death? The Lord, however, replied, "Nay, lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them" (Matt. 13:29).

[Cyprian]

St. Gregory Palamas explains that gathering and rooting up of the tares means to remove the wicked men from the earth through death. Gathering or rooting out tares means to rip them out of the ground, depriving them of life. The parable teaches us that wicked men may repent, therefore we should not kill them, because the tares may become wheat in the future, as in the case of the apostle Paul. This has nothing to do with tolerating heresy within the Church, like some crypto-ecumenists would have us believe. It is readily apparent that the Lord's servants formed a correct judgment about who comprised the tares (heretics/wicked men), otherwise they would not have asked their Master whether or not they should gather them up. So Christians ought to identify heretics (tares) and shun them, as we have been taught.

St. Gregory Palamas
Homily Twenty-Seven

1. I mentioned this before without explaining, and promised that I would set out the evidence when God gave me utterance and opportunity, which this parable of the Lord will now conveniently provide. “When the Lord’s servants”, it says, “saw the tares in his field, they said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. In the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them into bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn” (cf. Matt. 13:27-30).
2. The tares, as the Lord tells us, are the sons of the evil one. Due to the fact that their deeds resemble his, they bear his mark and are always his offspring and adopted children. Harvest time is when this world ends, because although the process of harvesting started long ago and is active today through death, it will be fully completed then. The reapers are Angels because they are servants of the heavenly King, especially on that occasion. “As therefore”, it says, “the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man” - Who is the Son of the heavenly Father - “shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend” (Matt. 13:40-41). Our Lord Jesus Christ, as God, is Master of everything and King of both heaven and earth and what is above the heavens. Having, however, become man for our sake, destroyed the devil who had deceitfully enslaved our race, ransomed us through Himself and presented us to His own Father, He has the human race, and more especially the holy Church, drawn from all nations, as His kingdom.
3. So, “He shall send forth his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity” (Matt. 13:41), meaning heretics and those who do not give up sinful actions through repentance - for all sin is iniquity. When the angels have collected them, “they shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth” (Matt. 13:42). Do you see, brethren, what a truly terrifying and dreadful harvest and separation this is? We were right to say that the angels were the reapers of this harvest, and that they had to do more than the Apostles. When the Lord’s servants, God’s angels, saw the tares in the field, that is to say, godless and evil people living alongside the good, and sharing in the life of Christ’s Church, they said to the Lord, “Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?” (Matt. 13:28), in other words, Shall we remove them from the earth through death? The Lord, however, replied, “Nay, lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them” (Matt. 13:29).
4. If they had collected the tares, given the fact that they would have separated out the evil from the just even if they had cut them down together through death, how could wheat, good people, have been uprooted too? Many impious and sinful people, living alongside those who are godly and righteous, eventually change by means of repentance, learn to be pious and virtuous, and become wheat instead of tares.- So if they were carried off by the angels before they repented, wheat would be uprooted when the tares were gathered. Again, many evil people have children or grandchildren with good tendencies. That is why He Who knows all things before they come to pass did not allow the weeds to be pulled out before their time. “In the time of harvest”, He said, “I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn” (Matt. 13:30).

[Macrina]

Thank you for the replies.
Cyprian, "crypto-ecumenists"....sounds like a conspiracy. Is that where one secret sect tries to infiltrate another secret sect? Does your reasoning also apply to the parable of the dragnet? Let me assure you that I am not a "crypto-ecumenists", but I am also not an elitist nor a puritan.

Nun Xenia, thank you for your kind words. Especially "I just know that you and me have a lot of Mercy from God to have true Bishops and the Church. So, we should try to be good". I whole heartedly agree with you as I feel the same way. However I could not take such a treasure and hide it in the ground all for myself. I prayed for many years for God's true church where I live. All of those prayers as God knows where not for myself. The Lord knows the burden of such a group of people which surrounds me is more than myself alone can bear. They need His church as I will not be here with them forever. So while I have all faith that God can and will take care of them, I also know there is nothing of the world where I live which can stop His church from being here and growing.
You are also correct about societies. It has been my observation that God teaches in the apophatic manner. And so, many have for a long time been deceived by false teachers here. However that seems to serve as a lesson which helps them. Since how would they know what was good if they didn't know what was bad. By definition one could not be deceived if they already knew the truth.

Although I would love to escape to peace and solitude such as that of a monastic life, that is not where God has led me. I do pray however that God will use me in some way to help establish a monastery here one day. Perhaps then I wouldn't worry so much about the church being alone here. For now it seems that God has me bringing in the sheaves that many prayerful tears have sown.
Psa 126:5 They that sow in tears shall reap in joy.
Psa 126:6 He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves [with him].
Nun Xenia please remember our lil mission church in Abita Springs, LA in your prayers as they go through their growing pains.

[Priest Siluan]

I have titled my thread as "Questions", because as a layperson of a traditional Orthodox church, I have questions.

If you are an Orthodox group in schism with all of the patriarchates, how long can you remain in schism before being considered a broken off branch, so to speak? And/or loosing recognition of any apostolic succession from within such a group as in schism with all patriarchates?

Jesus said to let the tares grow with the wheat until He comes and sorts them. It would seem many Orthodox are trying to do the job themselves.

Last year when my bishop came to visit our lil mission church, I made sure to take a picture of him with my family there. That picture will go into my family's genealogy as a historic moment. Historic, because it took a thousand years for the eastern church to give us a bishop. Sound crazy, I think so too. However, back when our family gave the church land with a monastery and school that stood for a thousand years, the eastern church never gave us any bishops, we were only given abbots.
Are politics more important than caring for those of us who want our churches to be there for us to raise our children in. Islam is still a threat to our faith. The fight is now from within (demographics of immigration and population growth) our own countries and families. Muslims do not need swords or terrorism to infiltrate our society and overcome it. They only need to let the church lie down and let them take it from us. I think they have enough of our churches.
Can you tell I'm a Frankish/Germanic descendant who is tired of waiting for the church, tired of fighting off Islam, and tired of the Greeks and Latins?
Please tell me there is something positive about the Orthodox church that I can tell my children and grandchildren. Or do they wind up with no church for a thousand years or more because of infighting among Orthodox Christians.

Are you in ROAC? If you are, you should know where is the true Church and She is very far from the so-called " Orthodox Patriarchates", but in fact they are heretics and slaves of the Ecumenism, the Religion of Antichrist.

[GOCPriestMark]

If you are an Orthodox group in schism with all of the patriarchates, how long can you remain in schism before being considered a broken off branch, so to speak? And/or loosing recognition of any apostolic succession from within such a group as in schism with all patriarchates?

Hello Macrina,

What do you see as schism from all the patriarchates? Do you mean not being in communion with certain people who live in a specific city?

How do you understand apostolic succession, how is it passed on and what is the content of what is passed in succession from the Apostles?

(These are not 'trick' questions, I just re-read your post and realized in my first reading I didn't understand what you were asking.)