Is Barak Obama the Antichrist?

[Ian]

Well at most you can say we do not know he is NOT of the tribe of Dan, since the tribe is, as you say, lost. Of course, we could say this about many, many people. In other words, we just don't know one way or other.

Makow's argument that Obama's maternal grandfather was Jewish seems to be based on some intuition rather than hard evidence: 'he looks Jewish'. I guess it takes one to know one or something? I don't consider it a valid argument anyway. And what's the Davis connection supposed to prove? Is Davis Jewish?

Lost to us, not to God and the other side. "But what is known about this man, Antichrist? His precise ancestry is unknown. His father is completely unknown, while his mother is a defiled, pretended virgin. He will be a Jew from the tribe of Dan." But you are looking for a "Russian Jew", the problem is an identifiable "Russian Jew" probably couldn't be from the tribe of Dan.

[jgress]

OK, well here's another, perhaps more significant problem with your thesis: Obama's mother never pretended to be a virgin. As to his father, there are competing stories, but no one is claiming that he had NO father. The point about Antichrist is that, to most people, he will appear to be born in the same way as Christ, i.e. without male seed from a virgin, but in fact he will be born of a harlot, probably by some kind of artificial insemination. At least, that is the clear prediction of St Seraphim of Sarov, with the prophecy of St Nilus the Myrrh-gusher appearing to corroborate this.

http://www.orthodoxchristianbooks.com/a ... ntichrist/

[Pravoslavnik]

Well, gentlemen, if nothing else, this discussion has generated some fascinating references. As the one who raised the original question, I would say that the most compelling evidence against Obama being the Antichrist is JGress's source material verifying that St. John of San Francisco did not become Archbishop of San Francisco and utter his prophecy until 1962-- whereas Barak Obama was born in August of 1961.

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I posted the argument here two years ago that we have no way of knowing, thus far, that Obama is NOT a genetic descendant of the Hebrew tribe of Dan-- despite several illogical assertions to the contrary.  Who can give his precise genealogy back to the time of Dan?

As for the quality of my sources, Catherine, yes, I do have degrees from two Ivy League universities, including an advanced scientific degree from Harvard, and I rarely watch anything on television.  I know a little about separating the wheat from the chaff in analyzing scientific, theological, and historical data.  There are some here who quote from less than credible sources, but I am not one of them.  In general, however, you will find very little written about Islam in Orthodox Christian sources-- and to understand Islam, the Sunna, and Hadith accurately as the Satanic poison it has always been, one must consult credible, non-Christian sources.

   Frankly, I am relieved to think at this point that Obama is probably NOT the Antichrist,  especially since I voted for him instead of the somewhat wacky, war-monger John McCain, and since Obama has done such a remarkable job thus far of trying to pull America from the disastrous economic and geopolitical quagmires of the Bush-Cheney era...

[jgress]

That sermon of St John's that Ian linked to does make a passing reference to the Moslem beliefs concerning the Mahdi, and I certainly agree that the Moslem 'prophecies' have an unmistakable resemblance to the Jewish belief in the coming of their Messiah. Both, of course, are demonic distortions of the true, Christian prophecies concerning the Antichrist and the Second Coming. That being said, I do think it is important to recognize that our own saints have not considered Islam to be the source of the Antichrist. This can't be simply out of ignorance of Islam: can we really take seriously this idea, given that the Orthodox have suffered so much from the Moslems? It must be that, ultimately, Islam is not the most significant player in the struggle between Christ's Church and Satan. This may be hard to believe when considering the present political situation, but we should remember that not everything the news considers worthy of notice is worthy of notice. Think about who it serves to make Islam out to be the greatest threat. Not just True Orthodox Christians: liberals, communists, Zionists and others all have a stake in fighting Islam. Satan's house is still divided against itself: the forces of evil in the world have not yet coalesced into a single, anti-Christian kingdom. We can recognize the different currents and trends that are clearly leading towards the Antichrist: the ecumenist movement, Zionism, communism (in both Russia and China), liberalism and globalization. Islam is also one of these anti-Christian forces, but it is only one of them, and I don't believe that in the end it will be the leading element. One reason I don't believe this is because Islam is so clearly opposed to the forces of globalization that I DO believe constitute the principle anti-Christian political trend. Satan will try to deal with all resistance to globalization, no matter where it comes from, although of course his greatest hatred is reserved for the True Church.

[Pravoslavnik]

JGress,

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  I have long believed that Islam is Satan's most ingenious creation; an anti-Christian virus if you will.  Islam certainly played a major role in destroying the original, greatest Orthodox Christian empire-- sweeping through the Byzantine Empire from the Persian Gulf to the Pillars of Hercules in less than a century, and ultimately destroying Constantinople itself.  I have seen the partially restored mosaic icons of Hagia Sophia, which were plastered over by the Ottomans for centuries, and entire mosques built from the stones of demolished Orthodox cathedrals-- like St. John's Basilica near Ephesus, which is now reduced to a foundation without walls.  By all accounts, Orthodox Christianity was certainly the primary religious "victim" of Islamic jihad, which spared most of the Roman Catholic West.

   An excellent scholarly text on the true history of Islamic dhimmitude in the former Byzantine empire is Bat Ye'or's [i][u]The Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam[/u][/i] (Fairleigh Dickinson University Press.  1996.)  As Joel Richardson points out in [i][u]Antichrist; Islam's Awaited Messiah[/u][/i], most westerners are unaware of the true doctrines and practices of Islamic shari'a, partly because of the religious duty of Moslems-- called "taquiyya"-- to lie to infidels about the true nature of Islam.  

  Joel Richardson's book is worth a serious look.  He analyzes the prophetic traditions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam in theorizing that the Antichrist will be the Islamic "Mahdi," who will be served by Isa, the "False Prophet" whom Moslems and others will mistake for Christ.  He points out that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world today, and that Chicago alone, for example, is now home to some four million Moslems.  If I am not mistaken, the Islamic population of the world-- more than one billion-- has recently surpassed that of Roman Catholicism.

     Many Moslems in the Middle East are descended from Jews who-- like many Orthodox Christians-- converted to Islam in former centuries in order to retain their property and civil rights under shari'a.  Hence, it is no stretch to imagine an Islamic "Mahdi"/ Antichrist who is a biological descendant of the Hebrew tribe of Dan.  While I do not pretend to interpret these prophecies accurately, it does not seem like a stretch to imagine an Antichrist-- descended from Dan-- who achieves worldwide authority with the support of the world's one billion Moslems.  What seems far less likely to me is that a man identified as a practicing Jew could ever be hailed as a world leader by the one fifth of humanity who revere Mohammed.

[jgress]

Point of information: the doctrine of 'taqiyya' actually originally referred to the Shiite practice of concealing their faith when living in Sunni-ruled territory. Although modern jihadists may have taken over this concept in order to facilitate their terrorist activities, 'taqiyya' is not a foundational concept of Islam. In fact, Moslems originally were completely open about their faith, and made their intentions clear: to conquer the world and subject it to Islamic law. Even today, jihadists are not at all quiet about their intentions, given all the videos they continue to produce and distribute across the world. This practice of 'concealment' only applies to individual terrorists, who hide their faith and their activities in order to elude the secular authorities.

I am not disputing how Islamic rule weakened Orthodox society in the East. In fact, this fact substantially bolsters my point: if the Antichrist will be a Moslem, why do NONE of the prophetic Orthodox saints mention this? I mean, if you can find even one saint who foretells this, that would strengthen your argument considerably.

I find it much more plausible that the Antichrist will come out of the indifferent, morally degenerate culture of the modern West than from the world of fanatical Islam: the former is even closer to the spirit of Satan than the latter. Read the Book of Revelation, where St John speaks to the church of Laodicea, which was 'neither hot nor cold'.

The current tense political situation is leading to the judgment of the world, the opening of the seals on the book, that precedes Antichrist and the Last Judgment. God will destroy the nations and civilizations of today for their abandonment of true worship, and a period of repentance and renewal of the Church will follow. But this itself will end when the world is given over to Antichrist. From what I understand in the prophecies, Antichrist will undertake a great deception: the world will think they are pious and worshiping Christ, but in fact they will have abandoned God completely and worship the most evil man to have lived. In discussions of the End, I don't think enough attention is paid to the enormity of the deception that will be practiced on believers. People talk of the Antichrist as if he will be obviously opposed to Christ: a Moslem fanatic, for instance. But the prophecies in fact foretell that the deception will be so strong that 'even the elect' may fall for it.

[Catherine5]

Prav, you're great on the Soviet stuff, but your Islamic knowledge is SO WEAK that it's laughable to go through the points one by one.
No offense, we all like you, but you are heavily distorted on your understandings.
The bottom line is that age-old hatreds and prejudices of the Jews against "Canaanites" or whatever even as far back as the Old Testament have gotten into Christianity and discolored everything so people cannot even see who in fact are actually Muslims, Iranians, Arabs, etc! They are woefully ignorant, yet emit such bombast that it really amounts to a complete campaign of libel.
The spirit of evil is so much in modern America that it's difficult to even be around Americans any more! Whereas Muslims are wonderfully traditional, have actual MANNERS, and are a thousand times easier to speak to or deal with. I'm not saying all Muslims are perfect, but until you get out there and find out in person what Muslims are like, how can anyone take seriously your very slanted diatribes! I challenge you: take a sabbatical and go live in Turkey for example. Find out for yourself if there is indeed ANY spirit of evil in these people. I see them as good because I spent decades of my life around them and know what I'm talking about! Unlike so many Orthodox, I am sad to say.
Many do not even know the real name for them. A man of Serbian ancestry, for example, I overheard fuliminating with an almost evil voice, "those Islamics are terrible". I had to laugh - he was perpetuating those ancient hatreds without a clue as to even of WHOM he was speaking.
My argument is that one needs to learn for oneself to acquire true independent thinking. Otherwise one is a slave to what I consider to be a hatred based in darkness of people that don't deserve it at all.
Disagreeing with religious doctrines does not require seething vitriol; they are completely different approaches.
It's that unreasoned hatred which will generate some punishment when one reaches the Dread Judgment, I believe.
It's a big deception that generating such ill-will is going to please the Savior. I believe that will do the opposite.
Instead of being so AGAINST other people of whom one knows almost nothing, why not stand up against the devil in modern America, such as the horrible sins
being condoned here all over the place? It's so easy to send out animosity toward anonymous religious groups, but answer this: why is there not one statement still against homosexuals from any credible Orthodox group? Show me one! I recall one made by ROCOR before the union against homosexual 'marriage' - very distasteful word in this context - but they stopped short of condemning homosexuality.
I realize this statement may not be popular, but don't you think God is heavily going to punish America for condoning and propagating this dire evil, encouraging the rest of the world to follow this God-mocking behavior, telling everyone it's the latest fashion?
God is NOT going to punish Muslims, because they overall adhere to their religion. These people will be rewarded for standing up for God and also against homosexuality quite clearly.
I feel there is a large tendency among many of the Orthodox I have met to snipe at small wrongs of others and miss the big picture entirely!
Sorry if that offends but it's always wiser to speak out accurate perceptions of existing problems, rather than to pat everyone on the back with sugary but inaccurate compliments to flatter them. That would be clearly demonic to give such vapid and insubstantial what I call cotton-compliment words.
Orthodox and especially True Orthodox must be willing to look at where they make mistakes. Otherwise there will be a fall due to pride and insensitivity, rather than a triumph, as there should be!
Don't get so defensive and reject out of hand anything that jars one's established perceptions of perfection of one's own self or religion!