Moderator: Mark Templet
1 The Lord is the God to whom revenge belongeth: the God of revenge hath acted freely. 2 Lift up thyself, thou that judgest the earth: render a reward to the proud. 3 How long shall sinners, O Lord: how long shall sinners glory? 4 Shall they utter, and speak iniquity: shall all speak who work injustice? 5 Thy people, O Lord, they have brought low: and they have afflicted thy inheritance.
Thank you... "they" took from us many things, also our temples in Suzdal, but "they" cannot take our Faith and our souls, God may grant keep our Faith, and so our Souls from "them".
They took from us because we allowed it. Because of our pride we were chastised. Psalm 50 should be our prayer. And we should remember Psalm 102 and join it with Psalm 142.
The greatest effort we can make is to pray the Canon of Repentence that says in part: But, O Sovereign Lord Jesus Christ, Treasury of good things, give me thorough repentance and a diligent heart to seek Thee; grant me Thy Grace, and renew in me the likeness of Thine image....I have forsaken Thee- do Thou not forsake me.
And repeat this in your heart: Grant me, O Lord, repentence before the end. (ODe VIII).
Our struggles are for a reason. Even if we get lost in the battle, we need each other to pull us out of the turmoil. It is so easy to get lost within the secular concerns. But, we must remember the goal of our lives....repentence.
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)
10 I have believed, therefore have I spoken; but I have been humbled exceedingly.
11 I said in my excess: Every man is a liar. 12 What shall I render to the Lord, for all the things he hath rendered unto me? 13 I will take the chalice of salvation; and I will call upon the name of the Lord. 14 I will pay my vows to the Lord before all his people: 15 Precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of his saints.
16 O Lord, for I am thy servant: I am thy servant, and the son of thy handmaid. Thou hast broken my bonds: 17 I will sacrifice to thee the sacrifice of praise, and I will call upon the name of the Lord. 18 I will pay my vows to the Lord in the sight of all his people: 19 In the courts of the house of the Lord, in the midst of thee, O Jerusalem.
We didn’t allow anything, because we are powerless in our physical struggle. We are citizens of the “prince of this world”, and his wickedness is enormous and his servants are “legion” …
Nobody can take our soul and faith from us, but ourselves, by our sins and pride and despondency, the latter being caused sometimes by the actions of others, which do not care about the faithful or their fellow brethren in the Faith, but just think about their earthly exaltation and the super correctness of their fanatical, erroneous and odious teachings.
“…better no church, than the Soviet church …” (Vladika Nikodim of Richmond)
Better no church, than the church of the antichrist, of the false prophets, of the ones that will to destroy our souls and bodies (my own version)
Kybihetz21
It is difficult to bare. I feel the same way. Everyday I ask God, how much longer Lord? Everyday I read these Psalms and feel as if it is coming from my heart. Is this how they felt in the 1st century? Is this how they felt 1000 years ago? Is this what the Russians felt during the Communist yoke? Are we just repeating the same struggles and agony of the heart, as they did? Yes. This agony is the result our seperation from the world...our conscience cannot bare being part of it.
We didn’t allow anything, because we are powerless in our physical struggle. We are citizens of the “prince of this world”, and his wickedness is enormous and his servants are “legion” …
DO NOT believe that! We are not powerless if we have Christ. He is strong when we are weak. I will not believe that I can be overcome by the evil one when I have Christ taking care of me. We are only made to feel weak, by the deceiver because he wants us to lose HOPE. Our faith is all about hope. And if we lose hope then we have lost our faith in the Supreme Lord and Master, our Creator, our God.
Nobody can take our soul and faith from us, but ourselves, by our sins and pride and despondency, the latter being caused sometimes by the actions of others, which do not care about the faithful or their fellow brethren in the Faith, but just think about their earthly exaltation and the super correctness of their fanatical, erroneous and odious teachings.
We have to look beyond the material and see the soul. Love is the glue. Love of the faith. Love of the truth and mutual love for each other. If it's not working, then help it. If the people refuse to change, then move on. Only stay true to the faith. Even Jesus Christ instructed the Apostles to wipe the sand off their sandles if they came to a place that didn't have the faith. There are just some places that will never accept the love. They will have to answer for it. But, you must move on.
I think about the heaviness that I feel in my heart and then I think about all the Orthodox from the 1st century that were loaded with burdens of their spiritual struggles. And I feel that if they could survive the struggle of spiritual warefare, then why would God abandon us, because we are in this century. So it's as if that time and our time are simultaneous. It makes no difference to God. This is what I think about when I look at the people that you described. I remind myself of a higher meaning.
“…better no church, than the Soviet church …” (Vladika Nikodim of Richmond)
There is no such thing as being better off with no Church. I prefer to think that there's always some true Church somewhere instead of the Soviet church or an Ecumenist church. God didn't leave us on this planet without a true Church. We just have to find it (if we truly care).
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)
We are surely the citizens of the prince of this world! We live in a pagan society, not a Christian one. In my statement I mentioned physical struggle, implying that once the courts and governments are against us, nothing will stop them from taking our places of worship, homes, and all possessions (they have done that already), but if we are strong and trust the Lord, they would not be able to take away our soul and our faith.
God has not abandoned us, but we have abandoned Him; we do so every time we sin, in view of the fact that sin is nothing else but separation from God and His Love.
Regarding Vladika Nikodim’s phrase, I do agree with him 100 %. At the present moment I live not too far from various new calendar/modernist churches (one of them is less than a mile from my current home), yet not only I don’t feel “at home” in those temples, but innovations and the modernistic/neo humanistic approach of their clergy and laity sickens me (I feel like they have taken those dear to me to a concentration camp/jail and have brainwashed them to the point that not only they don’t know who I am, but I can barely recognize them, neither physically, nor emotionally). It was surely easier for clergy to say that then (“better no church”) and even now, but for some of us, that have to travel hundreds or even thousands of miles just to attend fellowship services (reader services), or the occasional cycle of divine services, it is quite a burden. I try not to despair at this, or at the never ending lists of ultra orthodox jurisdictions that seem to be born almost daily nowadays, each which proclaims their great orthodoxy and rightfulness and righteousness, while accusing everyone else of not being part of “the Church”. I try to think of the ancient martyrs, of the martyrs of the Turkish Yoke, of the New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia, of all of those who like some of us, had to travel for hours in order to partake of the mysteries, or had to go thru innumerable troubles just to keep the faith, which was being taken from them by the godless authorities (as it is being taken from us, but now not only we have to deal with the pre rule of the antichrist, but with our former brethren who are also our enemies and fierce foes).
I think there are some hidden jewels that I wanted to mention from Kyb's last statement.
Joasia's reply was profound such as about the simultaneous time.
First, though I was surprised that when I watched the video which I had expected to be inspiring, I felt not good. Perhaps because I never knew any of these people, didn't recognize any faces, except Abp Laurus, which did not uplift me! But something else too. My suspicion is that after Metropolitan Philaret had gone to Heaven, Jordanville lost its luster somehow. It was more surface. Anyone can disagree with me; I'm no expert.
But I suspect that he was the soul of the place. Though he wasn't that much appreciated there, according to firsthand anecdotes.
As an aside, I had to watch a video of a deep emotional Arabic sermon to cheer me back up! I realized that for me, if Metropolitan Philaret isn't in a video of ROCOR, or other special hierarchs, such as Abp Leonty, or that newsreel of Met Anastassy, it lacks real resonance with the greatness that was ROCOR.
But the principle is quite rite, about all the treasures being taken away/
I was just thinking before I read the above about the scheming to take back St Elizabeths & Barbara's remaining relics to the St Martha-Mary Convent - I wonder if the party line of MP-ROCOR now is that the full relics' return will be approved after a while for their flock to get used to the idea...I fear it may be. Some of the flock probably are so - yes! brainwashed - that they would probably vy with each other ! - to hand over every last gem in the treasure chest to a voracious Moscow Patriarchate, Ltd. They would never notice even when all the ROCOR-MP properties were swept like carpets from under their feet and every last valuable removed down to the door locks. Freezing in the cold on empty lots , these brainwashees would still be praising the wisdom of the merger. Roasting chestnuts in piles of concrete rubble to warm themselves, they would earnestly debate whether Laurus should be "glorified" this year or next.
At least the Kursk Icon has come back, maybe not Immaculate or sparkling, but at least in one piece, so to speak. But if She could go to MP-territories - can you imagine what Metropolitan Philaret would have thought of the venture ? - why not to "schismatic" or "dissenting" groups - quietly without publicity ?
If permitted for Fr Vladimir Shishkoff's obsequies, why not on other occasions? Maybe TOC groups could put in requests...
I liked what Kyb said about these people who either went with the union or in some other flamboyant jurisdictions, have changed their actual physical appearances. I have heard also that ROCOR parishioners from pre-union days today do not even resemble their old selves. Too much darkness, most likely, has saturated their Churches and themselves, causing their faces to look robotic or devoid of light and their bodies to decay. I heard a credible report of amazing physical deterioration in those who accepted the union uncritically; maybe a study could be done on this by those better informed!