ROCOR and Moscow Reunification [sic]

[mtcarmel]

Maybe she was referring indirectly to her own background and how it currently still affects her life in the Church.

In contrast to yourself who -- or might I say "which" (because inanimate objects feel nothing) -- is affected by nothing; being apparently frozen into a form of Byzantine "Orthodoxy" that no longer exists... if indeed it ever did.

Sincerely,
elias

PS -- Are you reallywaiting patiently for the Lord? You seem rather impatient.

Catherine5
Jr Member

by joasia » Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:26 pm

Catherine,

Catherine5 wrote:
This is not a reply to Joasia's outburst - !

Then why mention it??
Do you want to make a point or something??
I waited patiently for the Lord and He heard me.(Ps. 39:1)

[joasia]

Elias,

PS -- Are you really waiting patiently for the Lord? You seem rather impatient.

I am patient with the Lord as far as my life goes. But, that has nothing to do with being impatient with others. Again, you twist the meaning. You are quite spiritually ignorant. You have no idea what the Holy Scriptures mean.

[GOCPriestMark]

Elias and Joanna,

I don't want to spoil your fun, but since I know a little about both of you I can see you are both a little off the mark towards each other and I am not going to start up a dating service to help you get better acquainted.

Please stay on topic.

[mtcarmel]

Joanna:

Fr Mark is right to encourage us to veer back towards the topic -- if not quite arriving at it...

Russia (a nation) became Orthodox. Before that they were well-known for their full-blown paganism.

At what point does referring to one's own "nation" become legitimate anyway?

When does a country become "Orthodox enough"?

Both Greece and Russia had to shed blood, sweat, and tears (Is a reference to secular music allowed?) to become "Orthodox"? And Greece itself appears to be in the midst of another Marxist revolution.

Nationality in this discussion seems relevant to the degree that some formerly in ROCOR feel, believe that the Russian church is not "Russian". And this from those who left Russia and became -- to some degree -- Americans.

peace,
elias

---

Joanna wrote:

stop spouting national propaganda...because you sound like a nationalist not Orthodox.

[Pravoslavnik]

Elias wrote:

When does a country become "Orthodox enough"?


Nationality in this discussion seems relevant to the degree that some formerly in ROCOR feel, believe that the Russian church is not "Russian". And this from those who left Russia and became -- to some degree -- Americans.

peace,
elias

Elias,

Code: Select all

  I am among those non-Russians from the former ROCOR who, in one sense, have tended to view the "Russian" Church (ROCOR) as not merely "Russian," but as catholic, universal.  Another who believed this was apparently St. John of San Francisco, who taught openly that one purpose of the post-1917 Russian "diaspora" was to bring Orthodoxy to the West.  Can you name other Orthodox Churches in modern America (besides the former ROCOR) which have adhered to the Apostolic Canons of the Church, the Old Calendar, and to the traditional praxis of the Orthodox Church?  For example, the ROCOR parish in my city was the only Orthodox Church which had no pews-- in accordance with the Apostolic Canon to stand in the church during prayers.  Confession and attendance at the vigil services was mandatory for those partaking of the Holy Mysteries.

  As for your first question posted above, a more appropriate question for this thread is perhaps-- "when does a country [i]cease[/i] being truly Orthodox?"  Is Vladimir Putin truly Orthodox in your opinion?  Is Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew?

[Catherine5]

About earlier posts, that's right, that IS my background, definitely.

For Joasia I have two words of advice: Entezar, Entezar....!
It's a joke, a little bit.

About Putin, has anyone seen the videos of him kissing the Mother of God of the Sign Icon gift given by Met Hilarion Kapral?
When he leant over to kiss the wood-type one- without the special riza of the real Kursk Icon owned by ROCOR- I practically shrieked as though a dark being had approached just the copy of the real Kursk Icon. HIs veneration of the real Icon was very perfunctory, probably all would agree. It was not the first time; if one seeks the old archives of the ROCOR-MP website, there's a revealing photo story of the first time Putin venerated the real Kursk Icon in New York when he was President of Russia.
Some of this may contribute to answering the question of how deep his religious sincerity is.
He gave a short speech to the ROCOR-MP delegation, at which he looked most uncomfortable, a contrast to his seemingly warm and welcoming words to them. Why would he be so stiff in that setting, he who has been photographed no doubt hundreds of thousands of times?
Later, when just at a meal for Patriarch Kirill, Met Hilarion and himself, a small smile escapes him and he actually looks like he has a human side when handing over the gift icon to an aide.
Of course he could be secretly shy by nature, it can never be discounted as one factor, but perhaps the power of the Kursk Icon momentarily overawed those spirits which hover around not just Putin but most of the world leaders today. The dark spirits fled in front of the real Icon, leaving him rather empty for that moment.
That's my creative interpretation; I don't claim to know.

[joasia]

Elias wrote:

In contrast to yourself who -- or might I say "which" (because inanimate objects feel nothing) -- is affected by nothing; being apparently frozen into a form of Byzantine "Orthodoxy" that no longer exists... if indeed it ever did.

Point taken. I deserve that...about my response to Catherine.

Catherine, I apologize. I'm an idiot.