Mysterious OCA Metropolitan Enthroned

[mmcxristidis]

Can you ellucidate on your comment?

you wrote:

Don't forget the Order of MANS (Christ the Saviour Brotherhood) connection.

There are several interesting articles about (HOOM) Holy Order of Mans/Christ the Savior Brotherhood at the Pokrov website

http://pokrov.org/display.asp?ds=Group&id=37

[priestmark]

Here is a link to a reprint the aforementioned AGAIN magazine article by then- Hieromonk Jonah (Paffhausen):

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Orthodoxia/message/1914

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I have heard surprisingly little over the years about this Order of MANS and the Christ the Savior Brotherhood.  It appears that the CSB was originally derived from the Order of MANS through their close involvement with former Abbot Herman (Podmoshensky) of Platina.  [...]  It is unclear whether this was before or after his chrismation or baptism in San Diego, but I would assume that it was after??  It makes little sense to suppose that he was baptized into the Orthodox Church AFTER starting an Orthodox society in college, does it?[/quote]

Maybe, little sense, but hardly outside the realm of experience. This Cafe itself was stared by someone who was not yet Orthodox at the time.

The Order is not some benign assembly that found Orthodoxy through Fr Herman. They were/are a well practiced cult dating back to the '60s who used a common tactic of "meal and spiel" at their Brother Juniper's restaurants to identify and entrap the susceptible. Then they implemented them into their communal mindset, encouraged home ownership in their own all-Order neighborhoods and from that base of 24 hour immersion brought all sorts of pressures to bear on any deviations from their 'goodthink'.

I remember the events being that the Order took over Platina. They had already long been telling their members they were Orthodox, but some had woken up to the fact they were not, when they interacted with actual Orthodox who did not recognize them. The ranks started to break and something had to be done to give an appearance of legitimacy in order to stop an exodus. In some cities, such as Indianapolis, the more ambitious simply lied their way into existing churches (even using the false claim of previous membership in our closed ROCA mission in Bloomington). Each church they entered was another stepping stone in a created history of membership. Some were ordained without ever entering the Church. Platina was ripe for the plucking, susceptible and convenient and an attractive resource. The molester Pangratios was also out there pretending to be a hierarch and looking for a flock. "Orthodox Word" went from its usual look, to having covers with hindu colors in 1986. That's when I realized something had changed - even before I was aware of their presence there. Fr Herman was not their leader - the (reincarnated apostle) Andrew Rossi was more important, but he left to go to England to study under Kallistos Ware. Others from the Inner Order (a secret monastic inner circle which is denied to this day - the ones who dealt with the actual demon who manifested as an oppressive blue light in their Grail chapels) filled the void.

Perhaps after meeting Fr Herman they then began their pursuit in Russia for others ("fools for christ" and staretzi) who shared the same spirits as the possessed ones here in America - whom they also called Fools for Christ. The most blatant and undeniable examples of overt demonic possession I have witnessed, were among Order of MANS members from Indianapolis who visited our church in Cincinnati when the Kursk Root Icon as there (invited by the disreputable abbot of the brotherhood of St Seraphim's Skete - Gabriel Loynes). During the service the most vile things were emitted, both from bodily orifices in miraculous quantities, and verbally with screams and howls - only whenever the Theotokos, or the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were named. I later asked the manager of the Bookstore in Indy why there were seemed to be so much psychological pathology and outright insanity amongst their group and she proudly acknowledged her own afflictions and the others as being because they were "Fools for Christ." So who is the christ in their brotherhood? There are many false christs - and many more false hierarchs.

[GOCPriestMark]

"Mt Carmel"'s new reply/post was off topic, so it was split off and placed here: ROCOR and Moscow Reunification [sic]

[mtcarmel]

Fr Mark Smith

Hi Fr.

I knew you when you were a brand new convert with the Antiochians in Eagle River, AK about 20+ years ago.

Some of the anxiety those in ROCOR may be feeling is that of the once Orthodox St. Herman's Press being used by formerly ROCOR priest Abbot Herman in the previous service of an Orthodox-styled cult.

But now that those fathers, brothers, and sisters of St. Herman's Press are Orthodox what might be the objection? That the Press has not been returned to ROCOR supervision?

The bookstore at the Geary Street cathedral carries books from all manner of publishing houses. Books from St. Herman's Press and books from the Antiochians at Conciliar Press. It seems to me things have come full circle.

As for those formerly of HOOM/CSB what objections can be made to the notion that "those who sat in darkness have seen a great light"? Isn't that the story of us all? Is it not also similar to the story of once pagan Russia before it converted to the Holy Orthodox faith?

Given the context of America as a secular land of the free, what sorts of religious expressions might be expected to emerge from the country where radical individualism is among the highest attainments. "Those who once sat in darkness have seen a great light".

HOOM developed as a radical expression of what was going on in the American culture in the 1960s and '70s. CSB developed out of HOOM and was guided by a former ROCOR priest who veered off into schism. Now many of those who were in CSB have entered the Orthodox Church through various canonical churches. Which ones of us who may have been on similar pilgrimages are now completely free of the smell of smoke which we aquired during our sojourns?

I had the honor of traveling to the Holy Mountain in 1998-99. While at the Russian Monastery of Panteleimonos the father with the obedience of the relic and the chapels took me to venerate the skull of St. Silouan the Athonite. For some reason unknown to me I mentioned the Russky Polomnik and that I had aquired a several missues as gifts. His face lit up and I said in the moment that I would be happy to send the copies I had to him. So among the Russians on Mt. Athos, at least one Russian struggler knew of the journal and appeared to value it as a help in his salvation.

I am of the opinion that these attempts to link Met. Jonah to HOOM/CSB are little more than a red herring. It is probably wise to clean our own houses first.

elias

[Pravoslavnik]

Mt. Carmel,

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    I agree with your comments in some particulars.  At my former ROCOR parish I knew an excellent, God-fearing man who had been involved with HOOM in the past.  I have nothing bad to say about this brother in Christ, who is now apparently serving as a deacon in an Old Calendar parish in another state.  As for OCA Metropolitan Jonah, it is perhaps a sin to raise such questions about an Orthodox hierarch in the first place, but I have certainly wondered about his longstanding involvement with the Moscow Patriarchate in the past-- especially given what we now know about KGB "recruitment" methods within the MP from the writings of Konstantin Preobrazhensky (and from the Mitrokhin KGB archives.)  Have you read Konstantin Preobrazhensky's book, [i]Trojan Horse[/i], or [i]The Sword and the Shield[/i]?

[mtcarmel]

I've heard of the Mitrokhin archive. You are referring to KGB/FSB's New Trojan Horse: Americans of Russian Descent? The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archive and the Secret History of the KGB? Trojan Horse sounds like it may apply more directly to the topic at hand. I have put them both in Amazon wish list.

It's not easy to picture Met Jonah as an agent for the KGB. Perhaps Bishop Job (OCA-Chicago) who was on the same ballot for metropolitan. Frankly, Job was the favored candidate but some unexpected balloting results brought Jonah onto the ballot. Bishop Job was said to have set up surveillance cameras in Moscow to record OCA indiscretions. If his reputation is in keeping with his actions he seems more the KGB type with an eye for intrigue and thirst for political power. When Jonah published his Divine Ascent Journal many to most of the issues seemed focused on traditionalist Orthodox spirituality. The fact that he's getting criticism both from Orthodox conservatives and the liberal politically motivated types may be a good sign -- though a little uncomforatble for him.

elias

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[quote]Mt. Carmel,

re: OCA Metropolitan Jonah... I have certainly wondered about his longstanding involvement with the Moscow Patriarchate in the past-- especially given what we now know about KGB "recruitment" methods within the MP from the writings of Konstantin Preobrazhensky (and from the Mitrokhin KGB archives.) Have you read Konstantin Preobrazhensky's book, Trojan Horse, or The Sword and the Shield?[/quote]

[chad rook]

"It is probably wise to clean our own houses first. "

I agree!! So who are you ?
Chad