Confession of Faith Against Ecumenism

[Suaidan]

The only reason I posted that article in the Traditionalist section was because of the Traditionalist essence of it, although I suspected that it came from clergy of the State Church of Greece. Those people, whoever they are, are just trying to make an effort, and should be supported and helped, not attacked. The moderators are of course free to move it anywhere, and even delete it, if necessary.

In other words you posted it there intentionally.

What really makes me wonder of the sincerity of the beliefs and Christian Love of the Traditionalists/Old Calendarists that answered this post (and many others), is what I describe as a generally nasty and unforgiving attitude to ANYONE that is not part of their group, not matter how little it is. All this “Ultra Orthodoxy” and “Super Correctness” only helps those that remain in “World Orthodoxy” jurisdictions to stay where they are.

And you did it to judge us.

Please forgive me for being so bold, but it is not we who have innovated, but the state Church, of which I assume you are a part. We have put up with the state Church's persecutions, intolerance, ecumenism, heresy, and perversion of the faith, a bunch of New Calendarists put up a statement condemning the 1920 encyclical and nothing in it and we are supposed to be like "thank the Lord for our brothers"?! Give me a break.

P.S. Stop working to starve the monks in Esfigmenou and confiscating parishes in Russia and I might care what a bunch of New Calendarists think.

[Kybihetz21]

In the popular argot of the American public, a phrase (quite offensive one may think) is used in a situation like this:

"When you assume, you make an ass out of 'u' and me."

In this case, our dear friend Joseph (because I consider him a friend) has assumed certain facts, which clearly confused his understanding of this "discussion”.

First of all, I didn't post that article there with the intention of creating a debate (I don't need to do so since there is always some sort of ridiculous fight on the Internet about the righteousness and correctness of the different groups that comprise the Old Calendarists). The ONLY reason I posted that article on that section was to show the good will and effort of those who compiled, signed, and published that declaration. Even if many believe that it is not "enough", I still believe it was a good document, which shows adherence to Church Doctrine and Tradition. I agree that it didn't detail every single issue or problem that takes place in the New Calendar jurisdictions, but that doesn't take from the importance and weight of the declaration itself. I did not post the article to "judge" anyone, not only because I am not God, Who is the Judge of all, but because I do not have the necessary time to start examining and criticizing the sins or faults of others, since I have plenty of my own to deal with.

Regarding the absurd and malicious accusation of our brother Joseph (a clear example of argumentum ad personam), which implies my active participation and collaboration with the New Calendar State Church of Greece (or the Moscow Patriarchate, for the matter) in either a physical or moral capacity, and my lack of understanding of the situation of those who suffered under the yoke of the Masonic and Communist regimes of the 20th and 21st centuries, I can only laugh since he personally knows part of the difficulties and tribulations (lets not name the countless number of persecutions) that I have been subjected to for being in opposition to both said regimes and the hierarchy of those modernist jurisdictions.

Brethren, we are here not to thank them, but to help them understand more what the struggle of the followers of the Church Calendar and Tradition was and is. To help them take the extra step towards a full and clear path that will take them to Salvation and Truth. No tree grows in a day, and if anyone beliefs such fallacy, it is surely a fool. We have to water the Faith of those that so openly express their ideas and show us their hopes, which so many of us fail to understand. Rather than expressing our discontent with the lack of what is written, we must rejoice that someone, no matter who, has recognized an error, a deviation from the Truth, even if that individual still has a long way to go in order to realize the falsehood and untruth that those in power preach. As someone that has lived in a culture of fear and repression, I tell all of you, that even the minimum disagreement towards the general teaching and belief is a good step, one that cannot be discarded as hypocritical, but should be nourished and guided the same way we teach and guide our children.

May God our Lord have mercy on all of us, now and forever, and help us attain the Truth and keep the Faith of our Fathers, which still is witnessing so much persecution, both from the outside, and from within.

Asking for your prayers,

Miguel

[Suaidan]

First of all, I didn't post that article there with the intention of creating a debate (I don't need to do so since there is always some sort of ridiculous fight on the Internet about the righteousness and correctness of the different groups that comprise the Old Calendarists). The ONLY reason I posted that article on that section was to show the good will and effort of those who compiled, signed, and published that declaration. Even if many believe that it is not "enough", I still believe it was a good document, which shows adherence to Church Doctrine and Tradition. I agree that it didn't detail every single issue or problem that takes place in the New Calendar jurisdictions, but that doesn't take from the importance and weight of the declaration itself.

How many of these so-called "declarations" have there been in the past decade? What difference do they make? None. And they make no difference precisely because of their "imperfection", which is always the same-- a lack of moral clarity and specific reasoning. I am fully convinced that part of the reason statements like this come out of Greece is solely to assist the New Calendar Churches in courts to take properties; it allows them to claim they are the same body they always were, which just isn't true. Perhaps that's not the intent of the signers.

Regarding the absurd and malicious accusation of our brother Joseph (a clear example of argumentum ad personam), which implies my active participation and collaboration with the New Calendar State Church of Greece (or the Moscow Patriarchate, for the matter) in either a physical or moral capacity, and my lack of understanding of the situation of those who suffered under the yoke of the Masonic and Communist regimes of the 20th and 21st centuries, I can only laugh since he personally knows part of the difficulties and tribulations (lets not name the countless number of persecutions) that I have been subjected to for being in opposition to both said regimes and the hierarchy of those modernist jurisdictions.

I apologize, but you are perhaps not aware of the sufferings of others who would disagree. I know what you have been subjected to for the sake of the ROCOR union. This is why it's even more mind-boggling for me to see you posting this. Of all people, someone who has seen what the ROCOR union became should know about counterfeit tradition and how it works.

In that sense this doesn't help your case at all.

This document was signed by a core of Greek New Calendar Bishops who have consistently refused to address the problems of tradition in their Church-- they are aware of the problem. They ignore it. You believe they are returning to tradition. I believe they are trying to present a "middle way" between tradition and innovation. Time will tell, I guess, but I will say this is not the first such document, will not be the last, and will have as its net effect-- nothing!