Where is the Church?

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Dear, suaiden I have some more questions for you:

Why the Milan synod doesn't have any prayer communion with the French Church since both proclaim to be western orthodoxs?

Secondly, I found out that Met. Eulogios got united with Angelos of Aulona and ordained fr. Porfyrios to bishopric. Does this mean that Angelos is now with Auxentius Marinis and Pangratios of Nemea??? Or Euloghios has seized communion with them prior to his conselebration with Angelos??

[Suaidan]

Dear, suaiden I have some more questions for you:

Why the Milan synod doesn't have any prayer communion with the French Church since both proclaim to be western orthodoxs?

1) Because the French Church are New Calendarists.
2) Because the French Church are divided into parts.
3) Because the Gallican rite is a reconstruction that was not meant to be permanently used.
4) Because of evidence of secret theosophist membership in their history.

Secondly, I found out that Met. Eulogios got united with Angelos of Aulona and ordained fr. Porfyrios to bishopric. Does this mean that Angelos is now with Auxentius Marinis and Pangratios of Nemea??? Or Euloghios has seized communion with them prior to his conselebration with Angelos??

No, Metr Angelos is alone. The Synod issued a statement clarifying that they are only in communion with Metr Angelos and Bp Porfirios in Greece.

Aren't there more important things to worry about right now, like the monks who are going to be evicted by the police?

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Aren't there more important things to worry about right now, like the monks who are going to be evicted by the police?

This is irrelevant to this topic. Besides, two friends of mine attended Esfigmenou's feast without facing any problems. As for the police forces didn't approach the monastery closer than a mile and didn't "have shut down all roads leading to Esfigmenou" but they were there to check for valid "diamonitiria" and to prevent those who had tried last year to enter mount Athos illegally. Also the "katholikon" was pretty crowded and the food was excellent (I don't think this is a sign of starvation. Our Holy Mother of God protects them a lot, so far). It is true that two Esfigmenite monks weren't allowed to enter Athos and they were expelled, but no later than the evening of the same day they were back. Now we are waiting to see pictures of the feast and of the "police forces".

No, Metr Angelos is alone. The Synod issued a statement clarifying that they are only in communion with Metr Angelos and Bp Porfirios in Greece.

Of course I know that he's alone, this is what he desired from the very beginning becoming an OC. At last he found a synod to ordain his spiritual son whom nobody even think to do so. After NC joined SiR, after SiR joined Makarios, after Makarios joined a Montenegro inexistent church, after this joined Milan Synod, and so on..! He seems to get bored very easily (as any other true vagante bishop) ! !

[Suaidan]

This is irrelevant to this topic. Besides, two friends of mine attended Esfigmenou's feast without facing any problems. As for the police forces didn't approach the monastery closer than a mile and didn't "have shut down all roads leading to Esfigmenou" but they were there to check for valid "diamonitiria" and to prevent those who had tried last year to enter mount Athos illegally. Also the "katholikon" was pretty crowded and the food was excellent (I don't think this is a sign of starvation. Our Holy Mother of God protects them a lot, so far). It is true that two Esfigmenite monks weren't allowed to enter Athos and they were expelled, but no later than the evening of the same day they were back. Now we are waiting to see pictures of the feast and of the "police forces".

Praise God, then. I will get a confirmation that the SWAT forces have left and update accordingly. I was concerned. I was told the number of the pilgrims for the feast was significantly reduced because of police clashes and that troops were still there. If that is not the case I would be glad to update my site.

Of course I know that he's alone, this is what he desired from the very beginning becoming an OC. At last he found a synod to ordain his spiritual son whom nobody even think to do so. After NC joined SiR, after SiR joined Makarios, after Makarios joined a Montenegro inexistent church, after this joined Milan Synod, and so on..! He seems to get bored very easily (as any other true vagante bishop) ! !

He did not "join" the Milan Synod. He is in communion with us. We have no jurisdiction in Greece.

Metropolitan Anghelos is still a Bishop of the TOC of Greece who appealed for our aid in time of need. If yours did the same, we would likely do the same for yours. All true Bishops of the TOC of Greece are our brothers, because we are not the TOC of Greece. Still, we do not recognize him to the exclusion of anyone else. But he asked to join into communion with us; none of the other TOC Greeks asked us, should we tell him no-- and if so, why, besides what you consider to be personality defects? And those souls under him-- I guess-- worthless too? This finger pointing is so irritating. These are the last days and we act as though everything is clear as glass. For this reason most of Greece is under the EP.

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He did not "join" the Milan Synod. He is in communion with us. Metropolitan Anghelos is still a Bishop of the TOC of Greece who appealed for our aid in time of need. If yours did the same, we would likely do the same for yours.

I'm wondering if there was an imperative need for one more bishop (two bishops for three monasteries and a couple of parishes??) I'm also wondering how the NC bishops can manage to administer by themselves their huge metropolises (consisted of numerous and crowded parishes) without the need of vicars..!

OK! Lets accept that Angelos is now in communion with Milan synod. If he breaks communion with you and the other day an other juriction appeal for "your aid", would you "give a hand" and generally keep going by spreading "bishops" here and there?????

All true Bishops of the TOC of Greece are our brothers, because we are not the TOC of Greece. Still, we do not recognize him to the exclusion of anyone else. But he asked to join into communion with us; none of the other TOC Greeks asked us, should we tell him no-- and if so, why, besides what you consider to be personality defects?

Despite being very openminded, no matter how many times I read this paragraph, I keep seeing only one word flashing before my eyes: ECUMENISM. This is the fundamental theory of ecumenism. The theory of branches. We are all the same, we are brothers, we beleive the same with different ways..etc! I'm affraid I have to use Met. Kyrikos' words: Oldcalendaristic Ecumenism! Do you know how many "jurictions" exist and are seeking "aid"?? The M.S. by consecrating bishops for Greece, is only doing harm and is making "unity" among the Greeks, seem an ellusive goal..! Why? Because it can't exist unity among bishops with doubtous "chirotonias"..! As far as I know none of the greek synods (GOC, MTOC, SiR) recognise M.S's validity and cannot consider its greek bishops as brothers...

And those souls under him-- I guess-- worthless too? This finger pointing is so irritating. These are the last days and we act as though everything is clear as glass. For this reason most of Greece is under the EP.

This is a PS, I hadn't read. But it is my question too? "And those souls under him"..?

[Suaidan]

I'm wondering if there was an imperative need for one more bishop (two bishops for three monasteries and a couple of parishes??) I'm also wondering how the NC bishops can manage to administer by themselves their huge metropolises (consisted of numerous and crowded parishes) without the need of vicars..!

Apparently, considering he has over 100 monastics under him alone.

OK! Lets accept that Angelos is now in communion with Milan synod. If he breaks communion with you and the other day an other juriction appeal for "your aid", would you "give a hand" and generally keep going by spreading "bishops" here and there?????

If the need was there, and the TOC of any country needed our help, yes, I would hope so. Do I question the value of, or the need for, this consecration? I do. But these things will work out to the glory of God regardless, I am sure. And I don't think it's all bad. It's nice to be in communion with Metr Angelos.

Despite being very openminded, no matter how many times I read this paragraph, I keep seeing only one word flashing before my eyes: ECUMENISM. This is the fundamental theory of ecumenism. The theory of branches. We are all the same, we are brothers, we beleive the same with different ways..etc! I'm affraid I have to use Met. Kyrikos' words: Oldcalendaristic Ecumenism!

You caught me. I AM an Old Calendarist Ecumenist. I believe all TOCs should unite without discussing issues of doctrine BECAUSE THERE ARE NO ISSUES OF DOCTRINE BETWEEN THEM. I say "we are all the same" because WE ARE ALL THE SAME.

So, you found me out.

This is a PS, I hadn't read. But it is my question too? "And those souls under him"..?

Yes, his parishes and monasteries. You know, the things Bishops are responsible for.

[Anastasios]

I thought that Metropolitan Evloghios was in communion with either Archbishop Maximos, or as Kallinikos mentioned, Auxentios II (Not sure of his official title so I put the second to distinguish him from his uncle).

Did they break communion at some point?

Thanks Joe for any info on this.

Deacon Anastasios