Where is the Church?

Helen · Post by **Helen** » Mon 19 May 2008 3:50 am

Quite right David. The only thing is, as long as some Orthodox people define the purity of the Church according to it's members, there will always be divisions. Some controversy can always be found if you look hard enough. A delight for the devil really - that is, all these controversies and subsequent splits.

Constantine · Post by **Constantine** » Mon 19 May 2008 12:51 pm

Unity amony Orthodox MUST be based on truth and on a Orthodox confession of faith, in theory and praxis. The Kiousis synod confession of faith in theory is Orthodox, but as someone said earlier they commune new calenderists so their praxis is not. The Orthodox faith is a faith of praxis. If another synod was Orthodox in praxis and theory, then they have different confessions of faith, why would they want to join the kiousis synod? Just for the sake of unity? That is old calender ecumenism. Let us not start being 13 dayists, basing all unity on the old calendar, but let us maintain the faith that was handed to us in theory and praxis, and if there is to be any unity let it be done in a Orthodox manner, based on Confession of Faith and truth.

... · Post by **...** » Mon 19 May 2008 2:39 pm

Mr.C wrote:
Unity amony Orthodox MUST be based on truth and on a Orthodox confession of faith, in theory and praxis.

TRUE !

Mr.C wrote:
The Kiousis synod confession of faith in theory is Orthodox, but as someone said earlier they commune new calenderists so their praxis is not.

PROVE IT ! Otherwise, in the same way I can say that Kyrikos says that he's "the only orthodox bishop in the entire universe" as someone said earlier..!

Mr.C wrote:
The Orthodox faith is a faith of praxis. If another synod was Orthodox in praxis and theory, then they have different confessions of faith, why would they want to join the kiousis synod?

It's pretty weird that despite what unproved you write here, everyone wants to get united with kiousis synod. Think about it! (this is my answer to Mr. DavidS)

Mr.C wrote:
That is old calender ecumenism.

True "Kyrikian" horology.

Mr.C wrote:
Let us not start being 13 dayists, basing all unity on the old calendar, but let us maintain the faith that was handed to us in theory and praxis, and if there is to be any unity let it be done in a Orthodox manner, based on Confession of Faith and truth.

TRUE! Let's talk now about the orthodox manners that Met. Kyrikos used to get united with these Romanian bishops!

Constantine · Post by **Constantine** » Mon 19 May 2008 5:41 pm

The difference is YOU-LMP said, that Met Kyrikos wrote in his periodical that he is the only bishop in the universe, I asked you to show us that 3 times and you couldnt produce it, you also said you receive his periodicals so how could you not prove it. All this showed was that you are a liar and slanderer. The fact that the Kiousis synods does commune NC is well known, would you like me to hide in one of their churches and take a picture of a nc person communing then go hide in a nc church and take a pic of that same person in the nc church? Also, you first agree with me Orthodox Unity should be based on "truth and on a Orthodox confession of faith, in theory and praxis." But then when I say if it is not based on this, it is Old Calendar ecumensim, you say it is "True "Kyrikian" horology". I dont think you even know what you believe. Also who wants to unite with the Kiousis synod? Synods that believe there is still grace in the NC and ecumenistic world orthodoxy, good comapany, but you know what they say birds of a feather flock together. Didnt the Kiousis synod offer to help concecrate bishops for Agafangel's group? Agafangal believes their is grace in the MP! But the Kiousis still wanted communion with him. There is your proof as to the Kiousis synod being Orthodox in Theory and NOT in Praxis. Talk to you later LMP/Kallinkos or who you are gonna be tommorow.

... · Post by **...** » Mon 19 May 2008 6:29 pm

"Didnt the Kiousis synod offer to help concecrate bishops for Agafangel's group?" NO! Only Kyprianos did. I'm afraid that either you can't read greek or you've read a bad translation of kiousis salutation.

"would you like me to hide in one of their churches and take a picture of a nc person communing then go hide in a nc church and take a pic of that same person in the nc church? "
How can you distinguish an oc from an nc. Do they have bigger mustaches and beards as a sign of piousness..?

"lmp"..I don't get it..

... · Post by **...** » Mon 19 May 2008 6:45 pm

Ohh..., I see! LMP, the anti-kyrikite guy! The one you had a long pointless conversation.

Well, there is a huge difference you may haven't noticed!
I'm posting here things about Kyrikos (sth that you don't do, so as to keep in secresy your Bishop's actions maybe..?) so I'm not an anti-kyrikite as the LMP guy.
Secondly I'm not from Greece!

Constantine · Post by **Constantine** » Mon 19 May 2008 6:57 pm

I will look for the offer to help concecrate, but while you wait lets look at this.

May 25 2007
Archbishop Chrysostomos II of Athens and All Greece
Protocol # V920

To His Grace Agafangel of Odessa, And The Clergy And Laity Of The ROCOR!
Beloved Brothers in Christ Jesus. I wish you much joy in Jesus Christ our Lord.

The Church of Christ being solicitous of the salvation of its flock, teaches true believers to wall themselves off from false shepherds who lead the sheep of Jesus Christ from the field of the True Faith. The Greek Church of Genuine Orthodox Christians deeply sorrows to see a part of the ROCOR joining with the Moscow Patriarchate in Moscow on the Feast of the Ascension 2007... Our sorrow is because the Moscow Patriarchate never repented, nor did it judge as heresy, both sergianism and ecumenism. To the contrary, the Moscow Patriarchate continues to participate in the deceptive ecumenical "dialogue of love" with the World Council of Churches. At the same time, the MP competes with Patriarch Bartholomew in its mutual prayer with Buddhist and heterodox entities.

...We are most appreciative of the historical ROCOR, as we, being bereft of Bishops due to the persecution of our Old Calendar Church in Greece by the New Calendar State Church of Greece; we received consecrations by the ROCOR some 50 years ago, when it was led by that saintly First Hierarch, Metropolitan Philaret of blessed memory. Our Church at that time entered into Eucharistic communion with the ROCOR under Metropolitan Philaret, who officially proclaimed anathema on ecumenism.

Not long after that time, when Metropolitan Laurus was a Bishop of the ROCOR, he visited Greece and concelebrated with our Bishops, thus reaffirming the Eucharistic communion we possessed together. This is why we deeply sorrow over those who have followed Metropolitan Laurus into union with the MP, which ended that part of ROCOR's ecclesiastical existence.

Nevertheless, it brings great joy to us to see the sensible part of the clergy and faithful of the ROCOR resisting the forces of sergianism and ecumenism, and uniting under the omophorion of His Grace, Bishop Agafangel, thus continuing to be true to the Holy Traditions of The Church. Thus we congratulate all of you for standing firmly in the Truth, and we stand with you as fellow soldiers fighting for the Truth and striving together in our mutual holy struggle to keep the Traditions of our Holy Fathers.

We pray to the Almighty Lord that he would fortify you in your Confession of the Faith, and grant you to inherit the example of Metropolitan Philaret of blessed memory, while avoiding any possible non-canonical actions.

Signature: Archbishop Chrysostomos II, President of the GOC
Signature: Member Bishops of the GOC Synod

The part I like is:Nevertheless, it brings great joy to us to see the sensible part of the clergy and faithful of the ROCOR resisting the forces of sergianism and ecumenism, and uniting under the omophorion of His Grace, Bishop Agafangel, thus continuing to be true to the Holy Traditions of The Church. Thus we congratulate all of you for standing firmly in the Truth, and we stand with you as fellow soldiers fighting for the Truth and striving together in our mutual holy struggle to keep the Traditions of our Holy Fathers.

Yes going under the omophorion of Bishop Agafangel who believes there is grace in the MP! Very Orthodox Praxis for the Kiousis synod. Also believing there is grace in schismatic sergianist heretics? According to Kiousis synod that is the traditions of the Church?