Pope, Orthodox patriarch meet privately, pray together

[Jean-Serge]

So are you saying Saint Mark of Ephesus was wrong when he said that the Latins were heretics? Are you saying that the Oriental patriarchs were wrong in 1895 when they defines the latins as heretics?

The latins were condemned on many aspects by differents councils and others orthodox authorities. Here are some examples and the list is not complete :

Third ecumenica council

1. These things having been read aloud, the holy Council then decreed that no one should be permitted to offer any different belief or faith, or in any case to write or compose any other, than the one defined by the Holy Fathers who convened in the city of Nicaea, with Holy Spirit. As for those who dare either to compose a different belief or faith, or to present one, or to offer one to those who wish to return to recognition of the truth, whether they be Greeks or Jews, or they be members of any heresy whatever, they, if Bishops or Clergymen, shall be deprived as Bishops of their Episcopate, and as Clergymen of their Clericate; but if they are Laymen, they shall be anathematized.

5th ecumenical council

The one worship of Christ.

To the Lord Jesus Christ as to one person, as the God-man it is fitting to give a single inseparable worship, both according to Divinity and according to Humanity, precisely because both natures are inseparably united in Him. The decree of the Fathers of the Fifth Ecumenical Council (the Ninth Canon against Heretics) reads: "If anyone shall take the expression, Christ ought to be worshipped in His two natures, in the sense that he wishes to introduce thus two adorations, the one in special relation to God the Word and the other as pertaining to the Man… and does not venerate, by one adoration, God the Word made man, together with His flesh, as the Holy Church has taught from the beginning: let him be anathema" (Eerdmans, Seven Ecumenical Councils, p. 314).

On the Latin cult of the "Heart of Jesus."

In connection with this decree of the Council it may be seen how out of harmony with the spirit and practice of the Church is the cult of the "sacred heart of Jesus" which has been introduced into the Roman Catholic Church. Although the above-cited decree of the Fifth Ecumenical Council touches only on the separate worship of the Divinity and the Humanity of the Saviour, it still indirectly tells us that in general the veneration and worship of Christ should be directed to Him as a whole and not to parts of His Being; it must be one. Even if by "heart" we should understand the Saviour’s love itself, still neither in the Old Testament nor in the New was there ever a custom to worship separately the love of God, or His wisdom, His creative or providential power, or His sanctity. All the more must one say this concerning the parts of His bodily nature. There is something unnatural in the separation of the heart from the general bodily nature of the Lord for the purpose of prayer, contrition and worship before Him. Even in the ordinary relationships of life, no matter how much a man might be attached to another — for example, a mother to a child — he would never refer his attachment to the heart of the beloved person, but will refer it to the given person as a whole.

Other example : Encyclical of the Oriental patriarchs of 1848

4. Of these heresies diffused, with what sufferings the LORD hath known, over a great part of the world, was formerly Arianism, and at present is the Papacy. This, too, as the former has become extinct, although now flourishing, shall not endure, but pass away and be cast down, and a great voice from heaven shall cry: It is cast down (Rev. xii. 10).

I could also talk about the Synodikon of the Holy Spirit which anathematizes the Filioquist and that is in use in the Greek church. Do not forget the Palamite council that condemned the catholic views on created energies...

[Papoutsis1]

First, The Greeks do not use and never have used the addition to the Creed. You may want to just pop your head into a Greek Orthodox Church to realize this for yourself.

Second, I will repeat for the last time the Canon's require an OFFICIAL CHARGE OF HERESEY!!! If you are leveling a charge against a priest, Bishop or other Hierarch the Canons DEMAND an official Charge with evidence offered and a pronoucement/judgment against that heirarch.

Example, Arians are heretics and the canons were specifically written for them and people like them. Qquestions, what does praying with Heretics mean? Liturgical celebration or just non-liturgical, non-celebratory group prayer?

If it means the former, which I believe it does, then the EP, MP and no other heirarch has ever violated this Canon. NEVER!

If it means the latter, which I do not believe it does, then you can never enter a hospital room and pray for and with a dying Jew, Muslim, Catholics, etc., who deserve our prayers for the salvation of their souls.

Where is the official synodial Court body that has passed on this charge? Has the charge ever been made officially? If so has a synodial court passed judgment? This is what the Canons require. Are you telling me this is NOT what the Canons require? that the mereist rumor and enuendo is enough? Not even the scriptures themselves state this.

The NT clearly states that if we have a grievance we are to bring it to the elders of the Church. This is the very foundation of the Canon that requires official charges filed, evidence taken, hearing had and judgment issued. THIS WAS NEVER DONE!

So if this was never done, who truly violated the Canons? So-Called world Orthodoxy or TOC. I think you know the answer.

God Bless

Peter

[Jean-Serge]

Hey Papoutsis, I was talking about the Latins who use a modified and fake Creed and consequently fall under anathema... Plus many other things commited by the Latins who make them be heretics. And YOU pray with heretics... Prayer with heretics designates any type of prayers (liturgical or not) as expressed by the commentators, Balsamon, Zonaras or Saint Nicodemus...

I invite you to read this whole essay
about this topic written by someone from the State church of Greece. Here are some extracts.

When the 10th Canon of the Holy Apostles imposes excommunication to anyone who “even prays together at home”, with someone who is not in communion (heretic or excommunicated), it is obviously referring to ordinary praying and to not the performance of Divine Liturgy, given that performing the Divine Liturgy at home is strictly forbidden, according to Canon 58 of the Laodicean Synod.[20] Therefore, the words “even if he prays together at home” refer to every form of common praying. And those transgressing this Canon “must be excommunicated”!

[Papoutsis1]

I'm going to say this one more time. Show me the Official Sydodial Court decision that declared the EP, the MP or anyone in so-called World Orthodoxy an official heretic for engaing in ecumenical dialogue and joint prayer?

Show me the Synodial Court decision that EP Athanagoras did not have the right to lift the Anathema against the RCC when it was EP Photios who placed the Anathema.

I DO NOT CARE ABOUT COMMENTATORS I CARE ABOUT THE OFFICIAL PRCEEDINGS ON THE CHARGES OF HERESEY AGAINST THE ECUMENICAL PATRIARCH AND/OR THE MOSCOW PATRIARCH.

If there was no official tribunal called, no evidence offered and counter-offered, no hearing, deliberations and a final decision then you, YOU, and others of the TOC have openly abrogated the canons.

You cite to the Canons when it helps you, but not when it does not. There was no CANONICAL BASIS for the break.

Do you happen to know of Father Passios here in Chicago? He was a TOC Bishop that many, including myself went to for a number of years along with my Koumbaro and several of our friends. I and my Koumbaro and friends are all Greek and all New Calendarists and alot of New Calendarists went to Father Passios. Greeks don't really care about this Old Calendar New Calendar stuff like you do so we go back and forth from Old and New Calendar Churches, still do with some in the area.

In any event, Father Passios eventually became a New Calendar member and Bishop. However, Father Passios insisted on being re-consecrated with three or two Bishops. He asked for this HIMSELF!
Why did he do this if he always believed, apparently,that he was a True Orthodox Christian? Because he was never consecrated according to the Canons. He was consecrated by only ONE Bishop, who was himselfp only consecrated by ONE Bishop.

Do you actually think I don't know you? I grew up with guys like you, fanatics like you.

Here is another question how can new calendarists found and create and be on the Parish council of a Old Calendar Church? Try answering that one because me amy mother and Father were one of several families in Dundee, Florida that help establish Tis Kimisis Tis Theotokos Old Calendar Church while still attending New Caledar Holy Trinity Church in Clearwater, Florida.

Now the NC Bishop protested, but never stopped us from communing in both Churches, just like the Russians were communing in both MP Churches and ROCA Churches the Bishop never stopped us.

My mom did this because she saw a need for this Church among the Greek Community so we filled that need. So were we heretics? Am I? I'm proud of that Church and still visit it evertime I'm in Florida. Greeks have communed and gone back and forth in both Churches for years. Not ever the TOC priest stop us and we even tell him that we come from such-and-such a church which is a NC church and he knows is a NC church.

I believe you have replaced love with hate and reason with fundamentalism. You have been unable, or unwilling to answer my question so I leave you in peace to your own delusions.

God Bless

Peter

[Papoutsis1]

I'm going to say this one more time. Show me the Official Sydodial Court decision that declared the EP, the MP or anyone in so-called World Orthodoxy an official heretic for engaing in ecumenical dialogue and joint prayer?

Show me the Synodial Court decision that EP Athanagoras did not have the right to lift the Anathema against the RCC when it was EP Photios who placed the Anathema.

I DO NOT CARE ABOUT COMMENTATORS I CARE ABOUT THE OFFICIAL PRCEEDINGS ON THE CHARGES OF HERESEY AGAINST THE ECUMENICAL PATRIARCH AND/OR THE MOSCOW PATRIARCH.

If there was no official tribunal called, no evidence offered and counter-offered, no hearing, deliberations and a final decision then you, YOU, and others of the TOC have openly abrogated the canons.

You cite to the Canons when it helps you, but not when it does not. There was no CANONICAL BASIS for the break.

Do you happen to know of Father Passios here in Chicago? He was a TOC Bishop that many, including myself went to for a number of years along with my Koumbaro and several of our friends. I and my Koumbaro and friends are all Greek and all New Calendarists and alot of New Calendarists went to Father Passios. Greeks don't really care about this Old Calendar New Calendar stuff like you do so we go back and forth from Old and New Calendar Churches, still do with some in the area.

In any event, Father Passios eventually became a New Calendar member and Bishop. However, Father Passios insisted on being re-consecrated with three or two Bishops. He asked for this HIMSELF!
Why did he do this if he always believed, apparently,that he was a True Orthodox Christian? Because he was never consecrated according to the Canons. He was consecrated by only ONE Bishop, who was himselfp only consecrated by ONE Bishop.

Do you actually think I don't know you? I grew up with guys like you, fanatics like you.

Here is another question how can new calendarists found and create and be on the Parish council of a Old Calendar Church? Try answering that one because me amy mother and Father were one of several families in Dundee, Florida that help establish Tis Kimisis Tis Theotokos Old Calendar Church while still attending New Caledar Holy Trinity Church in Clearwater, Florida.

Now the NC Bishop protested, but never stopped us from communing in both Churches, just like the Russians were communing in both MP Churches and ROCA Churches the Bishop never stopped us.

My mom did this because she saw a need for this Church among the Greek Community so we filled that need. So were we heretics? Am I? I'm proud of that Church and still visit it evertime I'm in Florida. Greeks have communed and gone back and forth in both Churches for years. Not ever the TOC priest stop us and we even tell him that we come from such-and-such a church which is a NC church and he knows is a NC church.

I believe you have replaced love with hate and reason with fundamentalism. You have been unable, or unwilling to answer my question so I leave you in peace to your own delusions.

God Bless

Peter

[GOCPriestMark]

In 1957, the Synod of Metropolitan Demetrius of Thessalonica, President of the Holy Synod of the True Orthodox Church of Greece, assembled in Athens and made the following declaration.

Declaration Against the New Calendarists, Modernists and Ecumenists:

The official state schismatic [church] by its transgressions and apostasies, remaining in schism, is becoming heretical. In the commentary of the First Canon of St. Basil the Great is declared: “A schism persisting wrongly becomes a schismato-heresy, and a schismato-heresy becomes a complete heresy” (Divine Chrysostom).We confess with all the strength of our hearts and with a tyrannical trumpet we declare our Faith and confession as follows:

1. We remain firmly unshaken in the Faith of our Fathers, in the injunctions of the New Testament, the Symbol of the Faith, the sacred Canons decreed by the holy seven Ecumenical and Local Councils, in the Teachings of the God-bearing Fathers, in the Decisions of the Pan-Orthodox Councils and Patriarchs, and in the Sacred Traditions.
2. We exclude and reject every deviation, every addition or subtraction of even one iota.
3. We are obedient only to decisions of Orthodox Councils.
4. We denounce the “official” [church] as innovationist, as schismatic, as cacodox, paving directly towards heresy.
5. We have no communion with the cacodox “official” [church], not recognizing the validity of its mysteries, not considering its acts and condemnations against us to have any authority.
6. We are indifferent to, and by no means fall by, the persecutions, the placing of the spears, the imprisonments, the defrockments, the slanders and insults, the banishments, with which the “official” [church] unmercifully treats us, thereby becoming “God-fighting” according to St. Athanasius the Great; [the “official” church] bears not a single power, nor has the capability to shake our faith and confession in regards to the Patristic [traditions] and separate us from the Holy Church, the Bride of Christ.

X Metropolitan Demetrius of Thessalonica (President of the Holy Synod)
X Metropolitan Spyridon II of Trimythus
X Metropolitan Andrew of Patras
X Metropolitan Callistus of Corinth
X Metropolitan Bessarion of Tricca and Stagae
X Metropolitan John of Thebes and Lebadia
X Metropolitan Meletius of Attica and Megaris
X Metropolitan Matthew II of Bresthena
X Metropolitan Epiphanius of Citium
X Metropolitan Anthimus of Piraeus
X Metropolitan Theocletus of Salamis
X Metropolitan Agathangelus of Tinos
X Archpriest Eugene Tombros (Secretary of the Holy Synod)

[GOCPriestMark]

Synod of the Genuine Orthodox Church of Greece - 1985

To the heretical ecumenistic encyclical of 1920, this statutory charter of the schismato-heresy of new calendarism and ecumenism, together with those who wrote it, and those who accept it, and those who proceed according to its commands: Anathema!

To the Masonic and ecumenistic Congress of Constantinople of 1923, whereby the introduction of the accursed innovation of the new Papal Calendar into Orthodoxy was decided for the common concelebration of the feasts with the heretics, marking her commencement in the heresy of ecumenism or the so-called Pan-Christian unity: Anathema!

To the resolution of the fifth hierarchy, whereby Chrysostom Papadopoulos decided upon the introduction of new calendarism, as the first step of enforcing the obscure schemes of Freemasonry and ecumenism: Anathema!

To the resolution in March of 1924, of the outrageous fighter against Orthodoxy, Chrysostom Papadopoulos, whereby he forcefully imposed the innovation and schismato-heresy of new calendarism and ecumenism: Anathema!

To those who outrageously fought against Orthodoxy: Meletius Metaxakis, Chrysostom Papadopoulos, Basil II, Athenagoras, and all who are of like mind as them, who likewise intentionally served, and continue to serve, the God-hated work of ecumenism until this very day: Anathema!

X Archbishop Andreas of Athens and all Greece (President)
X Metropolitan Epiphanios of Kitiou and all Cyprus
X Metropolitan Efmenios of Heraklion and all Crete
X Metropolitan Gregorios of Messenia
X Metropolitan Matthew of Attica and Megara
X Metropolitan Nicholas of Piraeus and Islands
X Bishop Lazaros of Bresthena
X Bishop Theodosios of Phthiotidos
X Bishop Pachomios of Argolis
X Bishop Titos of Servion and Kozani
X Archimandrite Chrysostom (Metropoulos) (Head Secretary)
X Hieromonk Kyrikos (Kontogiannis) (on behalf of the priests)
X Monk Theodulus (Demetropoulos) (on behalf of the monks)
X Professor Eleutherius Goutzides (on behalf of the laymen)