Metropolitan Lavr dies.

GOCTheophan · Post by **GOCTheophan** » Mon 17 March 2008 10:46 am

Ekaterina wrote:
Dear Theophan:

You say that Vladika Lavr anathemized himself and then died a damned soul.... well I see it differently.

Dear Katya,

I did not say that he died a damned soul. I am not God who alone has judged and can judge "Metropolitan" Lavr. We must think of the thief on the cross and the infinite Mercy of God.

However anathemizing yourself and than falling asleep afterwards is not exactly the best way to go to that judgement (which is not mine to make).

He made this world a lot worse of a place to live in still the same could be said about myself.

Theophan.

GOCTheophan · Post by **GOCTheophan** » Mon 17 March 2008 10:52 am

Ekaterina wrote:
Lent is a time of repentance and forgiveness. It is a also time when the Church calls upon us to pray for the dead. It would have been better for you to pray earnestly for your "enemy" than to go and villify him with your words.

Katya he was not my enemy.

He was the enemy of God and the Russian people.

I am not sure whether or not it would be sinful or not to pray for him given what the Apostle of Love St John has said about praying for the enemies of God such as he was.

I do honestly hope that God has had mercy on his soul.

Theophan.

Ekaterina · Post by **Ekaterina** » Mon 17 March 2008 10:54 am

Theophan:

I pray God is more lenient with you than you are with others...

In one breath you say.... You do not judge yet with that same breath you use words that indicate quite the opposite.

I know I cannot change your mind. Your heart, in this at least, is hard as stone. May the Almighty be more merciful to you on the day and days of your passing.

Katya

Jean-Serge · Post by **Jean-Serge** » Mon 17 March 2008 11:05 am

Well, the anathema against ecumenism clearly anathematize those who believe or are in communion with those who believe that heretics have mysterical grace. The fact is ROCOR entered in communion with many people clearly asserting that heretics have grace. It is the cas in the MP of Bishop Hilarion of Vienna, who said this recently; it is the case of the Romanian, Constantinopolitan and Antiochian churches that signed for instance in Australia the Covenant agreement recognizing all baptims from other "churches".

I also think those of ROCOR who stay after the union fall under this anathema. By the way none of them could answer my questions about this particular point.

GOCTheophan · Post by **GOCTheophan** » Mon 17 March 2008 11:17 am

Ekaterina wrote:
Theophan:

I pray God is more lenient with you than you are with others...

In one breath you say.... You do not judge yet with that same breath you use words that indicate quite the opposite.

I know I cannot change your mind. Your heart, in this at least, is hard as stone. May the Almighty be more merciful to you on the day and days of your passing.

Katya

Katya,

1.Theophan is lazy, lustful, sentimental, cruel, over talkative and has a heart of stone (the list could be much expanded).

2.Theophan is a damned lost soul in prelest.

1.Is simply stating facts.

2.Is judging.

I honestly do not and cannot know what went on within the heart of Metropolitan Lavr in his last hours and I really do hope that God has had mercy on him as I hope that God has had mercy on all those who have died either directly or indirectly (by mining accidents, overwork, alcohol related demises, in Checeyna, etc) through the organization he was a part of and which he helped so much to strengthen in its grip on Russia.

And Katya you are not exactly completely "unjudgemental" yourself.

Theophan.

Ekaterina · Post by **Ekaterina** » Mon 17 March 2008 11:31 am

Theophan wrote:

And Katya you are not exactly completely "unjudgemental" yourself.

A human failing we all share and for which I am constantly at war with myself for. I ask for your forgiveness if i have judged you.

Theophan also wrote:

I honestly do not and cannot know what went on within the heart of Metropolitan Lavr in his last hours...

and

I am not sure whether or not it would be sinful or not to pray for him given what the Apostle of Love St John has said about praying for the enemies of God such as he was.

Christ said ask and it shall be given.... all the more reason to ask for your enemy anyway.

Katya

GOCTheophan · Post by **GOCTheophan** » Mon 17 March 2008 11:35 am

Jean-Serge wrote:
Well, the anathema against ecumenism clearly anathematize those who believe or are in communion with those who believe that heretics have mysterical grace. The fact is ROCOR entered in communion with many people clearly asserting that heretics have grace.

Yes it is simple fact.

There is no way to get around it.

Theophan.