In Defense of evolution, Papism and the EP by Papoutsis1

[Papoutsis1]

Hello All:

Here is a great book that I recoomend for all. Also, I really haven't found any evidence of the Ecumenical Patriarch being a freemason outside of Traditional websites and all of it is rumor and innuendo. I'll keep looking. Bye.

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A Quest for Reform of the Orthodox Church: The 1923 Pan Orthodox Congress

A Quest for Reform of the Orthodox Church is a translation of the acts and decisions of the Pan-Orthodox Congress of 1923, which was held in Constantinople. The book contains a full transcript of the discussions held during the sessions, including the reports to the Congress. The 1923 Congress was called by Ecumenical Patriarch Meletios IV (Metaxakes) to deal with the issue of calendar reform for the entire Orthodox Church. This Congress recommended the adoption of a Revised Julian Calendar, which is in use in many Orthodox Churches today. The Congress also discussed the remarriage of widowed clergy, the appropriate ages for ordination, attire of the clergy, fasting guidelines, the situation of the “diaspora” in North America, and the still-unfolding events in the Russian Orthodox Church in light of the aftermath of the Bolshevik Revolution. Fr. Viscuso also provides an excellent and thorough introduction, overview, and analysis of the Congress, the attendees, the issues it discussed, and the reception of the Congress’ decisions by the Orthodox Church worldwide.

About the Author
The Rev. Dr. Patrick Viscuso is a professor of canon law, a past president of the United States Byzantine Studies Conference, and specialist in Byzantine and Oriental ecclesiastical legislation. His most recent writings focus on the the relationship of marriage to ordination, purity issues, divorce, and women's superstitions in Late Byzantium.

God Bless

Peter

[Papoutsis1]

Hello All:

Well I looked and looked and cannot find a connection Between Greek Orthodoxy and Freemasonry.

I was able to find from the so-called "Synod of Resistence" that a Greek Freemason Mr. Alexander J. Zervoudakis made metion in an article published by the S.I.R. that states that Mr. Zervoudakis met with Ecumenical Patriarch Meletios and talked to him about Freemasonry and allegedly "greeted" him like a Freemason", but I find the interpretation of the alleged quotations suspect, but suspect or not if they are real some credence to our paranoid allegations can be given.

I proceeded to independently verify the S.I.R citations, especially Mr. Zervoudakis' statements and I came up with a dead-end.

I placed a few e-mails with some people I know in the GOA about Patriarch Meletios and only one has come back discrediting the notion, but did not tell me why. I will pursue this further.

However, as it stands the connection between Greek Orthodoxy and Freemasonry is non-existent and based primarily on rumor, heresay and conjecture.

There needs to be a solid connection between Freemasonry and the leadership of the Greek Orthodox Church or any Orthodox Church for that matter. As of now there are none.

I'll keep looking.

God Bless

Peter

[Jean-Serge]

What about Bartholomew praying with heretics, which is forbidden by the canons? Please answer this question, Peter and do not dodge it...

[Papoutsis1]

Dodge? I thought you guys were dodging the canon law issue? No matter. Here is your answer:

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Interview with Bishop Hilarion of Vienna and Austria, Head of the Representation of the Russian Orthodox Church to the European Institutions, with the Official Website of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia

Do representatives of the Moscow Patriarchate participate in joint prayers during their meetings with the non-orthodox?

The ordained Orthodox delegates of the Moscow Patriarchate at the Assembly in Porto Alegre did not participate in prayers performed by the non-orthodox. Laymen in the delegation attended prayers at their discretion, but in fact refrained from participating in them.

As far as "prayer with heretics" is concerned, there are ancient canons which no one ever repealed. But in interpreting these laws, I feel we should attentively study the context in which they were appeared. Who were these "heretics" referred to in these rules? Arians who rejected the Divinity of Jesus Christ, the "Pneumatomachs" who rejected the Divinity of the Holy Spirit, the "Eutichians," who rejected the human nature of Christ, etc. Neither the Catholics nor the Protestants reject the Holy Trinity, do not reject the Divinity of Christ or His human nature. That is why we cannot equate them with the heretics referred to in the canons of the Ancient Church .

Even in that era, when the canons were written, they were not observed with rigor. It is known , for example , that Basil the Great , as archbishop of Caesaria in Cappodocia, had under him fifty chorepiscopi, most of whom were Arians. Almost none of the clergymen under him confessed the Divinity of the Holy Spirit (and he himself, in order not to disturb his flock, avoided openly speaking of the Divinity of the Holy Spirit). Basil knew the opinions of his clergymen, but continued to serve with them. And he did not demand of the former Arians who rejoined the Church that they confess the Divinity of the Holy Spirit: "It is enough for them to confess the Nicene faith, and the rest they will come to understand through a long period of communion with us." So today, following the Nicene (more specifically, the Nicene-Constantinopolitan) Creed can be accepted as the criterion for joint prayer with representatives of one Christian community or another.

Also , when canon law speaks of the inadmissibility of prayer with heretics , it refers , in my opinion, to prayer of a liturgical character, not to "common" prayer. When you invite a non-orthodox Christian to your home, could you not together with him, read the Lord's Prayer before the meal? Or at inter-Christian conferences—could we not, before a meeting begins, read "O Heavenly King?" Or, as an Orthodox Christian, when entering a non-orthodox temple, even during a service, could you not raise a prayer to God? One can pray in the forest, one can pray in a bus (filled, maybe, with atheists or those of other religions), but one cannot pray in a Christian church, even if it is not Orthodox? Honestly, I do not see the logic in that.

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And stay down. Thank you.

God Bless
Peter

[Papoutsis1]

Wait!!!! I think Bishop Hilarion is a Freemason! OMG! Sorry I just had to do that. Carry on!

God Bless

Peter

[Jean-Serge]

Bishop Hilarian is not a bishop but a politician. He says that that catholics do not reject the divinity of Christ. However, they hae adding the filioque which distorts all the structure of Trinity... Isn't the papal infallibility a heresy? Answer, please...

Saint Mark of Ephesus said the catholics are heretics, in the Greek church, there are since the 13th century anathemas against the Filioquist (i.e the catholics that are to be read the Monday of Pentecost)... Manay Saints taught that catholics were heretics. As all the heretics, their mysteries are void and graceless (the canons state this). Who is the most reliable? Saint Mark of Ephesus and the Fathers or pseudo bishop Hilarion of Vienna?

Moreover, with a canonical issue, we should give a canonical answer... Until now, you have not. For instance, all the comentators of the canons from Balsamon to Saint Nicodemus defined common prayer as any type of prayer... You had better come back to original sources, the canons, their commentaries and the Fathers rather than listening to the modern words of politicians disguised in bishops...

Moreover this thread is about the Bible. This discussion should take place in the world orthodoxy section.

[Papoutsis1]

He's a Politician? Not a Bishop? Ok, that was smart on your part.
You do know I'm a lawyer right? You want me to interpret canon law with all the acient and modern precedent's? It would be very long indeed, and at the end you still won't believe. You know why?
Because you just called a Biship a Politician that's why. You just dodged the issue.

Suffice it to say the anathema against the Catholics was lifed by Ecumenical Patriarch Athanagoras, and that's why we can talk and pray with them. However, I'm sure you have an answe for that also.

In any even, if you want a full blown legal answer I'll give you one, I just hope you're prepared for it.

Bye.

God Bless

Peter