Manhood - what does it mean to be an Orthodox Christian man?

[Helen]

I was just wondering if anyone out there has any references/links to information about what the Orthodox Christian man should aspire to be. I think there is a lot of information on what an Orthodox Christian woman should be or what is the ideal to aspire to (e.g. modest in dress, quiet spoken etc), but there seems to be nothing on what ideals an Orthodox Christian man should aspire to. I have read some Protestant books on what they think Christian men should aspire to (leadership, stewardship, initiator, etc), but where are the Orthodox sources??? Would be grateful for any thoughts as well.

[Misha]

orthodoxy has freedom and tollerance.there is no a model of orthodox christian,man or woman.
if you ll try to enclose orthodoxy in a model of behaviour you ll fail to approach the Spirit of God.
Every orthodox tries to follow Jesus commandments ,as a patient follows doctor s guidance.Its all about healing or in other terms orthodox psychotherapy.

[drewmeister2]

This is the only thing I could find, it is more about a man and his wife and family but still may be helpful:

The Husband's Responsibilities
The husband is the head of the wife...

We know that every organization, every institution—whether it be the Church, a parish, a monastery, or, in the world, a bank, a corporation, a school—must have a head, a leader. The same is true of a successful marriage, for the family is also a unit, a spiritual and physical organization. According to Holy Scripture and Sacred Tradition, the leader in a marriage is the husband. Again, the words of Saint Paul: The husband is the head of the wife... He is the leader. He represents the principle of authority in the family. Just as the priest is the spiritual leader of the parish, and responsible to God for the parishioners, and thus the spiritual authority in the parish, so too the husband is the priest in his family, responsible for setting the tone of family life.

This does not means that he is superior to his wife. In Christ's sight, all are equal; there is neither male nor female. In fact, marriage is a partnership of equals. Let there be no mistake: there is no room for chauvinism of any kind in Orthodoxy. Nor does being the head give a husband any kind of dictatorial, tyrannical, arbitrary, or absolute authority over his wife and children. But, as with every position of importance, certain responsibilities go with this one, and they are very heavy, very difficult, but also very challenging and potentially creative responsibilities. Scripture tells us that the husband must love his wife even as Christ also loved the Church and gave Himself for it (Eph. 5:25). Most Christian husbands have little idea of what this kind of love means. In the world, "love" usually refers to physical love or sentimental, romantic love. This has nothing to do with the Christian concept of love. Just recall Christ's words to His followers: Greater love hath no man than that he lay down his life for his friend. Love, then, from the Christian standpoint, means sacrifice, and self-denial. A husband must take as much care, concern, thoughtfulness, attention, regard and precautions for his wife as Christ takes for the Church. The husband's attentiveness might even have to extend to death itself. For just as Christ was put to death for His love of the Church, so too the Orthodox Christian husband must yield all things—even his life, if necessary—for his wife. Again, Saint Paul says, The husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the Church... We know what kind of head Christ was: He washed the feet of His disciples. According to our Saviour, to be head, to be first, means to serve—to be the first in giving love, in giving understanding, in giving patience, in providing his family with protection. This is the kind of leader, or head, that the husband is called to be. And when he is this kind of leader, he is a real man, a true man, faithful to his divinely ordained nature.

A wise wife will encourage her husband to be this kind of man; she will not try to take on the position of authority herself. Psychologists tell us that the anger a woman feels towards a man who has allowed her to take over the leadership of the family is the deepest anger of all. And we are now discovering that many cases of delinquency and even mental illness come from homes where the father has ceased to be the leader, the source of compassion, love, and protection.

A husband's duty to give love to his wife and family does not allow him to intimidate his wife. He must not treat his wife as a hired servant—which many men do. Here is what Saint John Chrysostom has to say about this:

"A servant, indeed, one will be able perhaps to bind down by fear; nay, not even for him, for he will soon leave you. But the partner of one's life, the mother of one's children, the foundation of one's every joy, one ought never to chain down by fear and threats, but with love and good temper. For what sort of union is that, where the wife trembles at her husband? And what sort of pleasure will the husband have if he dwells with his wife as with a slave? Yea, even though you suffer everything on her account, do not scold her; for neither did Christ do this to the Church."

Men, husbands, true love for us begins when we give of ourselves to others. We first really begin to love—in a Christian sense—when we first give. A husband once complained to Saint John Chrysostom that his wife did not love him. The Saint replied; "Go home, and love her." "But you don't understand," said the husband. "How can I love her when she doesn't love me?" "Go home and love her," the Saint repeated. And he was right. Where there is no love, we must put some love, and we will find it.

Often husbands complain to a priest that their wife doesn't love them. Then the priest discovers that the husband isn't going out of his way at all to give love; he's merely sitting back and waiting to be loved, like some kind of idol, waiting to be served and worshiped. Such a husband needs to discover that the only way to receive lasting love in a marriage is to give it, for in life we usually receive what we give: if we give hatred, we receive hatred; but if we give love, we receive it back in return.

The Fathers of the Church tell us that Christian husbands must love their wives more than their secular jobs, for there is no success greater than a happy home, and no other success that we men achieve in life will have meaning if we fail at home. Our families deserve the best. There are altogether too many of us men today who are at our best out in the world, and at our worst at home. For this reason, the Church Fathers tell us to set the highest possible value on the company of our wives, and be more desirous of being at home with them than being in the market place. Husbands, and future husbands, let us take to heart these words by the twentieth-century Frenchman, André Maurois: "I bind myself for life; I have chosen; from now on my aim will be not to search for someone who will please me, but to please the one I have chosen..."

from http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/orth ... riage.aspx

In my opinion, which the article seems to talk about too, is that I think the fact that today women and men tend to be reversing roles so much is the main reason divorce is so common (plus the fact no one is willing to work problems out but rather just give up and leave when problems do arise, but I believe this attitude is a result of the reversing of roles). Women now are the "breadwinners" for the family and the men stay home with the children in some cases, or in other cases, both the husband and wife work. There are obviously many other areas where the husband and wife have switched roles, or as a result of the feminist movement, the women are becoming like their husbands so it is like having two men in the house (role-wise not physically). Granted, I also realize this is a different society and in some cases just so the family doesn't starve both husband and wife must work, so I don't judge a family where this happens as I don't know their financial state. However even in such cases the woman can still take on the role of wife to the best of her ability. However, if a family is able to be financially secure with only the husband working, I believe this is ideal. Please do not take this post as an attack on women, many men have become lazy in this day and age and don't care about their families but would rather go and drink every night or have an affair, etc, which is also very very harmful as well. However, I do believe the feminist movement has created many problems for marriages by trying to make the wife the husband.

[Helen]

Thanks drewmeister. That article is great. And I agree with your opinions on role reversal as well, but what I'd like to find more information or opinions on, is the male role reversal. It says in the article that the most deep seated anger a woman can have, is if her husband doesn't take lead in the family and she is forced to take lead out of necessity. I also remember watching a documentary of an Orthodox psychiatrist/psychologist? giving a lecture to teenagers in Russia, where he spoke about the woman 'loosing control' if the husband doesn’t take lead. That is, psychologically her identity as a woman is threatened (being protected by her husband by her husband taking lead) and eventually this erupts behaviourally. The feminist movement satisfied some women's desire to take the traditional male 'bread winning' role, but I'm wondering if some men are actually enjoying not taking lead or are using feminism as an excuse for apathy. Comments?

P.S. Just a question - no personal offence intended to anyone in particular.

[drewmeister2]

but I'm wondering if some men are actually enjoying not taking lead or are using feminism as an excuse for apathy. Comments?

P.S. Just a question - no personal offence intended to anyone in particular.

This may be true, and I also think too that because women are much different now in their roles than they traditionally were, that men feel there is no need for them to be the leader since the women have taken over. I know a girl who was VERY strong in her personality and when I am around her she just kind of takes over everything, so I could easily see how the husband who marries her will feel as if he doesn't need to do anything.

I think the situation with men though is different. I don't think men are trying to be women like women are trying to be men. Women try to be like men so that they can feel "equal". Men I think though are failing to lead their families because look at the typical American male. Many hang out with their buddies all the time, are more interested in the football game than their own children, there is a big drinking problem too among American men sadly, and many men, while they may not actually be involved with a relationship with another woman other than their wife (although some obviously are involved in a extra-marital relationship), they aren't completely "there" in the marriage as I know many adult men when they pass by a really pretty girl (to put it nicely) they all look at her, and I know its not with love but with lust. Any time they see a girl they are distracted from their wives in some cases. I do think some men, yes, are lazy. My grandfather was, even though I love him very much, my grandmother did more raising of my mom than did my grandfather (according to my grandmother and my mom). He never disciplined them, it was always my grandmother who did that. So while it may not be a role-reversal in all cases with men, I think it is just a lack of sincere interest in family and in their wives.

[Грешник]

I disagree with this assessment.

Look at what we are "taught" by TV.. men are categorically lazy and dull and stupid and can not take the leading role in the family and so it is "up to the woman" to "be the man." I think it is safe to say that feminism created this "stupid man syndrome" where a lot of men think that because women are taking more of the active role that since was their's that now they can "veg out" and have it easy and leave all of the "family stuff" to the woman.

This is also a hrd one to assess because the gender roles are so blurred in our society and there are so many mixed singles that are being spelled out for men and women and that this is what makes it so hard for either side to hash out a real model for the identity the yare supposed to have.

As Orthodox we already have our Model and our models. We have the Fathers and the Saints and the Orthodox faithful who have lived a life that they were called to. I dunno I do not see this as a problem for the Orthodox (maybe my head is in the sand) but the lines are drawn for me and my models are clear for me and so this is not something I tend to worry about.

[patrick1000]

I disagree with this assessment.

Look at what we are "taught" by TV.. men are categorically lazy and dull and stupid and can not take the leading role in the family and so it is "up to the woman" to "be the man." I think it is safe to say that feminism created this "stupid man syndrome" where a lot of men think that because women are taking more of the active role that since was their's that now they can "veg out" and have it easy and leave all of the "family stuff" to the woman.

I think you have something with this media influence angle. Look at how many TV shows have the husband as the dimwit of the family and the wife as the responsible one who is wise in all things. Still this is no excuse any man to think they should act according to these idiotic TV shows!

A sinner,
Patrick