ROCOR-MP silent re: 4th of July

[Pravoslavnik]

Theophan writes: "However I believe that the basic core of Italy, France and indeed Germany never "bought" this nonsense and saw Hitler as basically a necessary evil.."

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      I would add just one brief addendum to my previous response to Theophan and Benjamin.  Have either of you gentlemen ever studied William Shirer's classic historical text, [i]The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich?[/i]  You are presenting some sort of revisionist history of Naziism that is not at all consistent with the historical documents.  Hitler was immensely popular in Germany in the 1930's, and was elected to the Presidency--if I am not mistaken--by a plurality of 90% of the popular vote!!  What concerns me is that this apparently new revisionist history of the demonic legacy of European facism is being paralleled today in modern Japan, where there is an emerging collective denial of the sins and atrocities committed by the Japanese state in Manchuria and around the world in the 1930's and 1940's.  And, as Santayana said, "Those who cannot remember the past are destined to repeat it..."

[Cyprian]

St. John Chrysostom, Homily V Against the Jews:

"Do you see the first attempt of the impudent Jews? Now look at the next. They tried the same thing in the time of Constantine. But the Emperor saw what they tried to do, cut off their ears, and left on their bodies this mark of their disobedience. He then had them led around everywhere, like runaway slaves and scoundrels, so all might see their mutilated bodies and always think twice before ever attempting such a revolt. "Yet these things happened very long ago," the Jews will say. But I tell you that the incident is well known to those of us who are somewhat on in years and are already old men."

[GOCTheophan]

Theophan writes: "However I believe that the basic core of Italy, France and indeed Germany never "bought" this nonsense and saw Hitler as basically a necessary evil.."

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      I would add just one brief addendum to my previous response to Theophan and Benjamin.  Have either of you gentlemen ever studied William Shirer's classic historical text, [i]The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich?[/i]  You are presenting some sort of revisionist history of Naziism that is not at all consistent with the historical documents.  Hitler was immensely popular in Germany in the 1930's, and was elected to the Presidency--if I am not mistaken--by a plurality of 90% of the popular vote!!  What concerns me is that this apparently new revisionist history of the demonic legacy of European facism is being paralleled today in modern Japan, where there is an emerging collective denial of the sins and atrocities committed by the Japanese state in Manchuria and around the world in the 1930's and 1940's.  And, as Santayana said, "Those who cannot remember the past are destined to repeat it..."[/quote]

Pravoslavnik,

Benjamin has said NOTHING about the Third Reich or World War II. I very much presume his views are not mine. However he does have the normal Christian views on jacobinism and the evil of the so-called "enlightment". Lets not confuse things.

.....Actually didnt Benjamin put the Nazies with Cromwell, George Washington,Lenin? Yes...I wouldnt call him a fan of them.

Theophan.

[stumbler]

I am still waiting for an answer as to whether Orthodoxy is compatible with or precluded by a democracy and a free society.

[GOCTheophan]

I am still waiting for an answer as to whether Orthodoxy is compatible with or precluded by a democracy and a free society.

Define free society...

Modern day europe is not a "free society" for the unborn child in a huge number of cases, or a society free to doubt certain historical details...I could go on. To be honest I have no concern with politics...the situation is hopeless, the antichrist must and is very much coming.

As a great english saint wrote what protection hath Christ's poor but Christ Himself and a Christian King? An old friend told me that when she was sinful enough to do a modelling the photographer suggested to her that she get pregnant in order to get the "glow" and than abort...Thats an example of your free society...

The Orthodox Empire was founded by Christ on Milvano bridge, your "Democracy" was founded by Satan whorshippers..does that not tell you something?

Theophan.

[Pravoslavnik]

"The Orthodox Empire was founded by Christ on Milvano bridge, your "Democracy" was founded by Satan whorshippers..does that not tell you something?"

Theophan,

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   Let us recall that this thread began with the observation that the  ROCOR-Laurus (KGB) Synod--which has been nurtured and protected by the United States of America for decades--did not acknowledge the July 4th celebration of America's "birthday."  At the same time, it was noted that Patriarch Alexey II (Ridiger) of Moscow, the new head of the ROCOR-Laurus, has publicly congratulated Fidel Castro and  the leader of North Korea on their occasions of state.

    On this same thread, you have indicated, incorrectly, that the French people welcomed the Nazi's as liberators, and resented the American soldiers, including my own father, who liberated Vichy France from Nazi military occupation in 1945.  You commented that the American democratic state was a demonic, Masonic invention, in contrast to the, apparently, Godly "annointed" Anglican sovereigns of the House of Hannover, like George III, in addition, I presume, to the other heterodox sovereigns of Europe and elsewhere.

    From your several statements on these issues, I can only surmise that you have a very limited ability to differentiate basic good from evil in human history and affairs of state.  At a minimum, we should all, as Orthodox Christians, be able to recognize when a political leader--Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Henry VIII, Napoleon, etc.--has become an [i]obvious[/i] servant of Satan, and when a leader, annointed or not--St. Justinian the Great, St. Alexander Nevsky, St. Stephen (Simeon) Nemanja, the Tsar-Martyr Nicholas II, or Prime Minister Winston Churchill--has been a servant of God.  "By their fruits ye shall know them."

[stumbler]

I am still waiting for an answer as to whether Orthodoxy is compatible with or precluded by a democracy and a free society.

Define free society...

Modern day europe is not a "free society" for the unborn child in a huge number of cases, or a society free to doubt certain historical details...I could go on. To be honest I have no concern with politics...the situation is hopeless, the antichrist must and is very much coming.

As a great english saint wrote what protection hath Christ's poor but Christ Himself and a Christian King? An old friend told me that when she was sinful enough to do a modelling the photographer suggested to her that she get pregnant in order to get the "glow" and than abort...Thats an example of your free society...

The Orthodox Empire was founded by Christ on Milvano bridge, your "Democracy" was founded by Satan whorshippers..does that not tell you something?

Theophan.

If you are done pontificating, perhaps you might answer the question. In your opinion, is Orthodoxy compatible with or precluded by democracy and a free society?