Evolution and an Orthodox Patristic understanding of Genesis

[jckstraw72]

the thing about the different perspectives of time though is, that when God was creating, He was the only there therefore there is only God's perspective concerning the timeframe of creation, as i see it at least.

[Pravoslavnik]

Jackstraw,

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   And what is God's perspective?  Would it not, logically, include the perspective from which the cosmos was originally created ex nihilo--the point at which the Big Bang occurred?  The British astrophysicist Stephen Hawking has even posited that there may be a cosmic "space" in which there is no passage of time as we experience it.  Mathematical equations suggest that there may be other spatial dimensions contiguous with the four dimensional space-time continuum that we perceive as humans.  I believe that this timeless space contiguous with our own may describe the physics of the "kingdom of God."  Christ God said that "the kingdom of heaven is all around, but you cannot perceive it," and He also said that "the kingdom of heaven is within you."  He, and many of the saints, including St. John of San Francisco, have suddenly appeared and disappeared from our four dimensional perception.  Think, for example, of the appearance of Christ God to Luke and Cleopas on the road to Emmaus, and His sudden disappearance during their meal.  When Kruschev proudly announced that the Russian Cosmonauts had not seen any evidence of God in outer space, he was, of course, thinking of our four dimensional space-time continuum as the totality of all physical reality.

[stumbler]

I would also like to add that Fr Sepharim Rose, in "The Soul After Death" also puts forth the idea that time is perceived differently by different entities.

I would like to quote it, but, as I have a good memory, I gave my copy away after reading.

In discussing demons, he suggests that they are around us and that we are lucky we can't see them with our limited perceptions.

In explaining why it is that certain spiritual entities, demons and angels alike, can communicate to humans the future, he suggests that the dimension in which they exist might have a different "time frame" - so that something they see as "present" could be a hundred years hence in human dimensions.

Suggesting these ideas is not "thinking outside the Orthodox box."

Father Seraphim was very conservative.

[jckstraw72]

yes but again, there werent various entities to perceive time differently. there was just God. and like i've said before, some entities' perception does not make reality.

[stumbler]

GOD is a different entity.

[jckstraw72]

yes but in order for your theory to be correct God would have to perceive His timeframe of creation as both 6 days and billions of years, and then choose to tell Moses about the 6 days, while in reality it was actually billions of years from the vantage point of earth. why He chose to tell it to Moses that way I surely don't know.

[Pravoslavnik]

Stumbler,

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 This is a bit off of the topic of evolution, but is related to your post about Father Seraphim and the demons' ability to perceive the future.  There is a story in the [i]Sayings of the Desert Fathers[/i] attributed, I believe, to St. Anthony the Great.  Some monks were travelling with a donkey to visit St. Anthony because they wanted to ask him if demons had extra-sensory knowledge.  The donkey died en route, and when the monks arrived at Scetis, St. Anthony said, "I'm sorry that your donkey died."  The monks asked how he knew about the donkey, and St. Anthony said, "The demons told me."

   I recall reading somewhere that demons cannot foretell the future, but that they are able to describe distantly occurring events in our four dimensional space-time continuum--as in the anecdote from the [i]Apothegmata Patrum[/i].  I have often been puzzled by this question.  For example, prior to his death, Grigory Rasputin reportedly told Tsar-Martyr Nicholas that--if he, Rasputin, were murdered by a member of the Royal family--the Tsar would one day see Grigory's house in Siberia prior to his own death.  When the Royal family was being ferried to Ekaterinburg, they did, in fact, see Rasputin's house, and recalled his "prophecy."  It always puzzled me to read this story if, in fact, demons lack the capacity for prophecy and foreknowledge of the future.