ROCOR-MP silent re: 4th of July

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GOCTheophan
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Re: Reason, Revolution, and the Ridiculous

Post by GOCTheophan »

Pravoslavnik wrote:

By the way, dear Theophan, I am still waiting to hear what region of France your relatives are from--those who have accused our American World War II GI's of being rapists and pillagers. Please let me know so that I can research the subject through the credible writings of someone outside of the GOC.

Firstly Benjamin is right- Nazi idealolgy is evil and jacobin, being fuelled by twisted ideas of "evolution" (whether social, political, technological or biological). However I believe that the basic core of Italy, France and indeed Germany never "bought" this nonsense and saw Hitler as basically a necessary evil, a bulwark aganist the vampires and the reds. This would have been proved correct if those behind the so-called officers' plot had not been so niave in trusting the "allies" who promptly passed all the information they gave them over to the Hitlerites. They thought that the allies were basically "Gentlemen" and would unite aganist to stop the red tidal wave that was drowning central europe, they thought that Churchill and FDR actually cared for their squadies and GIs- I would almost add a "lol" but it isnt funny. And yes there was evil commited by all sides in that horrible war....still despite their massive crimes I believe that the Axis was the lesser evil.

Satre who praised Stalin and I think even Pol Pot at one time, and Albert Camus who claimed that the only value left to mankind was rebellion are not sources that I consider of any value, of course they saw the destruction of Christian civilization in Europe as a "liberation", of course they wanted a Europe safe for the reds and vampires (by vampires I dont mean those of jewish blood). The fact that you quoate them is not to your credit in the eyes of Orthodox Christians. Anything I could bring forward would be regarded by you as coming from "right-wing crankdom" (do you believe that voting for the Democratic party in the USA shuts the doors to the KINGDOM of Heaven because of their advocacy of infanticide?).

In God's eyes there is no better authority than the authority of an Orthodox Tsar'.

-- St. Seraphim of Sarov

God granted unto Christians two supreme gifts: the Priesthood and the Monarchy, by means of which earthly affairs are governed like unto Heavenly ones.

-- St. Theodore the Studite

The Tsar' [on earth] is the living eikon of the Tsar' of Heaven.

-- Ven. Maxim the Greek

Please show me a saint who has praised democracy or advocated democratic idealogy?

Theophan.

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GOCTheophan
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Can you imagine people writing about JFK's death like this?

Post by GOCTheophan »

The Sin Of Regicide

After the death of Saul, who had fallen on his sword during a battle with the Philistines, an Amalekite ran to inform David, who at that time was being persecuted by Saul.

Supposing that David would be very glad at the news he brought, the messenger decided to pose as Saul’s killer, in order to increase the anticipated reward.

However, when David had heard the story made up by the Amalekite about how he, at the request of the wounded Saul, had slain him, he took hold of his garments and rent them, as did also all the people who were with him. They mourned and wept and fasted till evening. And David said to the young man that told him, Whence art thou? And he answered, I am the son of a stranger, an Amalekite. And David said unto him, How wast thou not afraid to stretch forth thine hand to destroy the Lord’s anointed? And David called one of the young men, and said, Go near, and fall upon him. And he smote him that he died. And David said unto him, Thy blood be upon thy head; for thy mouth hath testified against thee, saying, I have slain the Lord’s anointed (II Kings [II Samuel in the Authorized Version] 1:1-16).

Thus the foreigner who posed as Saul’s killer was executed. He was subjected to a cruel punishment, even though Saul was the persecutor of the innocent David and had done much evil, for which the Lord had departed from him.

From David’s words it is evident that he doubted the veracity of the Amalekite’s story and was not convinced that the man was indeed Saul’s murderer; nevertheless, he gave him over to death, considering that even calling oneself a regicide and boasting of such a deed was worthy of death.

How many times more grave and sinful was the murder of the Orthodox monarch anointed by God; how many times greater must the punishment be for the murderers of Tsar Nicholas II and his family?!
In contrast to Saul, who had turned away from God and because of this had been abandoned by Him, Tsar Nicholas II was an exemplar of piety and complete devotion to God’s will.

Having received not the Old Testament pouring of oil on the head, but the grace-filled “Seal of the gift of the Holy Spirit” in the Mystery of Chrismation, Emperor Nicholas II was faithful to his high calling till the end of his life and was conscious of his responsibility before God.

In his every action, Emperor Nicholas II took his conscience into account; he always “walked before the Lord God.” He was “Most Pious” during the days of his earthly well-being, not only in name, but in actual fact. In his time of trial, he displayed patience like that of righteous Job.

Against such a Tsar did criminals raise their hands, and at a time when he had already been purified, like gold in the furnace, by the trials he had endured, so that he was an innocent sufferer in the full sense of the word.

The crime against Tsar Nicholas II is all the more terrible and sinful in that his whole family was killed together with him, including the children, who were not guilty of anything!

Such crimes do not remain unpunished. They cry out to Heaven and bring God’s wrath down upon the earth.
If the foreigner — the supposed murderer of Saul — underwent death, now the whole Russian nation is suffering for the murder of the defenseless Tsar-Sufferer and his family, because it allowed such a terrible misdeed to take place and remained silent when the Tsar was subjected to humiliation and deprived of his freedom.

God’s justice requires of us a profound realization of the sinfulness of what was done, together with repentance before the Tsar-Martyr and his memory.

The memory of the innocent holy princes Boris and Gleb aroused the conscience of the Russian people during the disturbances which upset the appanage principalities, and it shamed the princes who had initiated the strife. The blood of the holy Great Prince Igor brought about a spiritual change in the souls of the Kievans and united Kiev and Chernigov in venerating the slain holy prince. Saint Andrew Bogoliubsky sanctified with his blood the monarchy of Rus’, which was confirmed only considerably later, after his death as a martyr. The veneration of Saint Michael of Tver throughout Russia healed the wounds caused by the struggle between Moscow and Tver. The glorification of the holy Tsarevich Dimitri cleared the consciousness of the Russian people, inspired moral strength and led, after severe shocks, to the rebirth of Russia.

The Tsar-Martyr Nicholas II and his much-suffering family have now entered into the choir of these Passion-bearers.

This greatest of crimes, committed with respect to him, must be expiated by fervent veneration of him and by the glorification of his struggle.

Rus’ must bow down before its humiliated, slandered and martyred Tsar, just as the Kievans once bowed down before the venerable Prince Igor whom they martyred, and just as the people
of Vladimir and Suzdal bowed down before the slain Great Prince Andrew Bogoliubsky!

Then the Tsar-Passion-bearer will acquire boldness before God, and his prayer will deliver the Russian land from the calamities it is enduring.

Then the Tsar-Martyr and his fellow sufferers will become new heavenly defenders of Holy Rus’.

The innocent blood that was shed will regenerate Russia and make it radiant with new glory!

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Jean-Serge
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Post by Jean-Serge »

Yes, of course there is a masonic origin to the American, French and even Russian revolution. I hint at the first Russian revolution which led to the Kerensky government.

But however, the freedom we enjoy comes from liberalism and not from monarchy. Indeed, the traditional monarchies in Europe were never respectful of religious freedom. Just think about the religion wars between catholics and protestants! In Russian things were not better because Russian Jews were persecuted simply because they were Jews. Is this a Christian behaviour? If you come back to Russia, you will notice that Russia illegaly annexed Georgian states breaking his oath and tried to eradicated Georgian in order to ma make everybody speak Russian. Is this a Christian behavior?

At the opposite, thanks to liberalism, we can enjoy freedom of faith whereas if we lived in monarchies with non orthodox monarchs they would probably be hostile to orthodoxy and consider us as heretics deserving punishment.

Moreover, I think that the Saints who spoke about political regimes had simply known monarchy and did not know other forms of regime...

Finally, as I said, ypu can jump on your chair yelling "monarchy monarchy" but if you cannot provide a detailed program and constitution, it is worthless.

Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.

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Jean-Serge
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Post by Jean-Serge »

benjaminw1 wrote:

Is that the constitution that enforces infanticide and the promotion of homosexuality and filthy pornography and the banning of christianity in schools?

Well, you are not obliged to watch pornography or be homosexual. It is your own decision. Letting people free even to sin is really christian because God let people choose their own way.

Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.

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Benjamin W. C. Waterhouse
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Post by Benjamin W. C. Waterhouse »

Jean-Serge wrote:
benjaminw1 wrote:

Is that the constitution that enforces infanticide and the promotion of homosexuality and filthy pornography and the banning of christianity in schools?

Well, you are not obliged to watch pornography or be homosexual. It is your own decision. Letting people free even to sin is really christian because God let people choose their own way.

Of course not, but you can't have it both ways, celebrating a sinful thing and washing your hands of it at the same time.

"The Synod of Metropolitan Cyprian adheres wholly to the exact same ecclesiological and dogmatic principles as our Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia,"

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Jean-Serge
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Post by Jean-Serge »

I simply acknowledge individual freedom : I can tell people what is wrong and why it is wrong but I have no right no forbid them sinning as long as they do not violate other people's rights. If I want to do so, it will became a dictatorial state or an islamic state...

Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.

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Post by Pravoslavnik »

Benjamin and Theophan,

Code: Select all

  I greatly revere the Tsar-Martyr Nicholas II and his family, and have even--by the grace of God--had an opportunity to venerate his holy relics in St. Petersburg.  He was truly an Orthodox sovereign, much-maligned and misunderstood in the West.  Nevertheless, there is not a monarchical institution in history that has not been subjected to the rule of an evil sovereign.  What of the Catholic monarchs who brutally suppressed the Orthodox Church?  As examples, consider the history of the Hapsburgs in the Balkans.  The ancient city of Ragusa (Dubrovnik) did not allow the construction of an Orthodox Church in their city for centuries.  At the very least, we must differentiate annointed Orthodox monarchs from the heterodox in endorsing monarchy as the ideal form of government!

      Secondly, why would you have our man-made governments necessarily deprive us of the freedom of choice granted to us by God?  Jean-Serge is right.  In America, one can chose to avoid pornography, homosexuality, abortion, etc.  The freedom to make moral choices, and to worship God rightly, is protected by the American Constitution.  Also, Orthodox Russia was quite guilty of genocidal pogroms against the Jews.
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