Evolution and an Orthodox Patristic understanding of Genesis

[joasia]

You do realize that people actually have serious debates on this subject beyond a simple dismissal of the topic, and that when one is overly dismissive, one turns off the ears of others? It's better to provide a reasoned response, not one that is dismissive.

I've done that already, Anastasi, on another thread. I even quoted St. Basil. Even proof from the Holy Bible, doesn't sway the inconsistent arguements of people who think they are Orthodox but believe in evolution.

One could say that God decided at the right time to endow the human with a rational soul

This is pure speculation and has never been taught by the holy fathers. And is also a silly arguement. Where's the proof, if evolution is true?

The arguements about the construction of matter and such still doesn't answer the question about the soul.

[joasia]

The point being made (consistently, I might add) is that God is NOT constrained by 24 hour days!! Something which is VERY CONSISTENT with the Orthodox understanding of God.

No it's not because it leads to the other lies of evolution. And that is proven with the arguements they post here. This is not Orthodox teachings. It's consistent with evolutionists though.

It seems that you and others tend to ignore the finer points because you never respond to them. You just plow ahead and repeat your view.

And it's tiring having to repeatedly correct them....and that is, again, that the holy fathers NEVER supported the evolution lie and refuted them instead and people who call themselves Orthodox but believe in this evolution lie, are not following the Orthodox view, because the holy fathers were Orthodox and therefore their consistent arguement against evolution(matter forming from non-matter - species developing into completely new species) is the voice of the Orthodox teaching...hence, those who believe in evolution(who were baptised into Orthodoxy), are not supporting an Orthodox view when they argue for evolution.

And the evolutionist are the ones that throw issues about molecules and DNA and blah blah blah, because they cannot find any support for the direct question. Where does the soul come into the picture of this evolution idea?

And it says that God created man in His own image. The holy fathers explain this clearly. Why don't the Orthodox evolutionist supporters read them if they're Orthodox?

[stumbler]

The point being made (consistently, I might add) is that God is NOT constrained by 24 hour days!! Something which is VERY CONSISTENT with the Orthodox understanding of God.

No it's not because it leads to the other lies of evolution.

This is a bit of a problem from a logic point of view. You assume that all teachings of science concerned with evolution are lies, and thus that they must be incompatible with Orthodoxy.

So, by analogy, if you believe that global warming is a lie, then it too must be contrary to Orthodox teachings.

Or perhaps you will provide us with a proof text like the one from the Protestant video, which quoted "As it is in heaven, so shall be it be on earth" as proof that God is constrained to a 24 hr Earth day.

Why can't you just admit that what we call science has nothing to do with the Bible? What is the proper position on string theory of the Orthodox Church, as enunciated by the Holy Fathers?

I will explain again: The reason that Protestants need "proof texts" and "either/or" abusrdities to prove religious points is that they were separated from the Church, and thus, still thirsty for spiritual and religious truth, had nowhere to look but to the book they carried with them.

While I have your attention, maybe you can elucidate another point of science for me - Which type of insulin would be best for my type of diabetes? There are so many choices, you know, and different doctors have different opinions. Do the Holy Fathers have any writings on insulin?

I know I will get very sick without it, but I, as an Orthodox Christian, trust God to guide me in making a right decision. I don't ignore my doctors' advice and prescriptions because "science is a lie" and the Holy Fathers never said anything about insulin and if I "really" believed I wouldn't ever look at or consider science or anything that the Holy Fathers never mentioned in making my decision.

Do you think that the doctor who put me on various insulins at various intervals is just a "scientist" who is using the fact that these chemicals keep me from dying sooner as a trick of sorcery in order to make me a non-believing atheist?

We don't have to accept all of science as correct, especially as science is constantly changing as it is weighed and balanced against observation. Neither should we ignore it.

I await fervently your Orthodox thoughts on my best drug regimen, and I beg your forgiveness that I will continue using science to determine it in the meanwhile.

[ChristosVoskrese]

stumbler,

Answer my questions. I don't care about all this other stuff - I just want you to answer the three questions I posted above.

Or is it because you can't answer them?

[stumbler]

Maybe you can lighten up on the proof texts and answer mine.

It is so very Protestant to take scripture out of context.

[ChristosVoskrese]

Your whole point is based on evolution = science. Science is concerned with that which can be observed and tested. Evolution cannot be tested, and no-one was there to observe it when it supposedly happened. Louis Pasteur and other scientists have proven that life only comes from life, yet evolutionists are still teaching that life originated in the primordial soup. Was your great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather soup? I don't think so.

Global warming has been observed and tested. It is happening now, as we speak. Evolution supposedly happened millions of years ago. There is no way to observe or test it.

Again, your point about medicine is completely absurd. Again, the human body can be tested. Evolution can't.

And about taking Scripture out of context: Do you honestly think that if Scripture is read in context that it supports evolution? I don't think so.

Now hurry up and answer my questions.

[joasia]

Stumbler,

Your direction of re-routing to diagnostics is just the point I made. Stick to the agenda. The evolution explanations are the lies and inconsistent with the Holy Bible and the Orthodox holy fathers. We are not talking about insulin.

The evolutionists can't seem to focus on the specific issues about matter developing from non-matter and species developing into other species and when did the soul come into existence.

I never argued against science. You don't seem to understand my points. Evolution is not science. It's a religion. Science is based on observable facts, not SPECULATION.

Evolution is based on not believing that God could create mankind, starting off with two. The dis-belief that mankind was created in a matter of a day is an indication of lack of faith in the Holy Bible(Old Testament) that Jesus Christ quoted from.

If you want to believe that your life is linked back to a pool of goop, then go ahead. But, prove it...that would be science.

I suppose you are a great supporter of the Da Vinci Code insanity too.

As far as my Orthodox view about your medical condition...choose the insulin that has been proven most effective due to testing....that's proper science. But, don't expect me to believe that my ancestors were apes.

That is just a complete insult to God's plan for our salvation. The Holy Bible teaches that God created us in His image. What? As a pool of goop? And then He created the soul at some moment of some time of development of man? THIS is not the Orthodox teaching. So why do you keep pushing it as such if you are Orthodox.

You and others here argue about the compatibility of evolution and the Holy Bible, but what you say about the evolution belief is not supported by the holy fathers. How blind can you be, not to see this much??