Traditional Orthodoxy

[Anastasios]

Also, a Serbian guy I talk to on Yahoo Messenger told me that he's heard Old Calendarists say "Those who accept the new papal calendar will have boiling lead poured in their throats in Hell". How could someone even say this if hell is the way sinners experience God's love?

That sounds a bit extreme and I wonder if that is what was really said to him. I find that this he said she said stuff one finds in argumentation on the internet is unfortunate. If you want to talk to a real Old Calendarist instead of hearing what someone attributes to us, please feel free to contact me. Since you are on Yahoo IM, my account is anastasios0513. Feel free to IM me any time I am on.

[TomS]

Michael,

Stop accepting advice from strangers on an internet message board. Most of them are lonely, arrogant, and lost souls who have forgotten Christ's commandment to not judge others. If they had any intelligence at all they withhold their judgement of their fellow brothers and sisters.

Find a priest that you trust and follow his direction and ignore the shrill condemnations from those who are quick to condemn.

The TRUE Orthodox Church is INSIDE of you; it does not exist in any man-made structure.

[clkp]

TomS suggested to Michael that he stop taking the advice of strangers on the Internet, and instead find a good Spiritual Father and then just listen to that person. I have been thinking about just that idea, of late, and decided to put down some of my thoughts on the matter. Perhaps they will be of some use.

I understand, at some level, what TomS is saying. There is a fine balance in Orthodoxy (and one that is difficult to navigate) between respecting our hierarchs and our priests, and coming to a conclusion (following study and prayer) that we believe is sound, even if it is not in agreement with our hierarchs and our priests. We need to remember that we are different from Roman Catholics (I used to be one); we are not charged to unquestioningly accept what anyone says.

As for myself, in these very troubled times I have arrived at a formula for decision-making that seems safe and perhaps sound:

1) First off, if I am thinking clearly, I pray. 2) I listen to what individuals say on the Internet -- across a wide variety of sites -- but I take little of it for "gospel." (I liken listening on the Internet to following the daily news -- a serious compositional effort on the part of many people, but probably a little short on absolute fact.) 3) I read original source documents and history. 4) I consider carefully the opinions of hierarchs and priests and monastics, that I have come to respect over a number of years (and those individuals are not necessarily all of one jurisdiction). 5) I try to visit Churches and people to see if there is correspondence between words and action. 6) I apply what I learned in high school and college, when it came to researching and writing a paper; I should hope we were all taught to search out primary documents, secondary documents, newspapers, magazines, personal interviews, etc. 7) I pay very careful attention to circumstances related to a decision that non-Orthodox people would call "just coincidence."

In sum, it seems that if you do your homework AND you pray, you will begin to come to a conclusion that is more that just knee jerk, more than just feel-good or convenient.

And besides all that, if you are inquiring about traiditional Orthodoxy, this is a traditionalist Orthodox site: where better to begin asking questions.

in Christ, Catherine

[ChristosVoskrese]

Unfortunately, in the city where I live, there is only one Orthodox church: the Antiochian one. (There is also a Coptic Church, but they aren't Orthodox - they're heretics). So that severly limits my options for spiritual fathers.

The main problem I see is with ecumenism. I asked my priest if I could attend the Anglican Evensong just round the road from me, and he said it was okay if I wanted to. That was before I read Canon LXV of the Holy Apostles: "If any clergymen, or laymen, enter a synagogue of Jews, or of heretics, to pray, let him be both deposed and excommunicated."

Also what annoys me is that my priest doesn't insist on correct Orthopraxis. He doesn't insist that women cover their heads in church, because he doesn't want to drive people away. He also doesn't insist that people dress up for church. But what is the point in having the church full with people who don't observe correct Orthopraxis?

[TomS]

Also what annoys me is that my priest doesn't insist on correct Orthopraxis. He doesn't insist that ...

Oh, I see; you are not even Orthodox yet you are already judging a man who has lived and SERVED the faith for probably all his life.

But, yeah, you know better.

But what is the point in having the church full with people who don't observe correct Orthopraxis?

Here is my advice. Stay where you are. Orthodoxy doesn't need anymore freaks who will spend their whole life moving to smaller and smaller Orthodox schismatic groups until it is just YOU and a handful of others who "keep the pure faith from the days of the apostles"

[TomS]

And by the way, ALL the Canons of the Church are not applicable to today. Many were created to deal with a certain period in history. They are not unchanging commandments from God.

[ChristosVoskrese]

Oh, I see; you are not even Orthodox yet you are already judging a man who has lived and SERVED the faith for probably all his life.

But, yeah, you know better.

I didn't intend to come across that way. By the way, my priest is a convert from Anglicanism, so he hasn't served the faith for his whole life.

Here is my advice. Stay where you are. Orthodoxy doesn't need anymore freaks who will spend their whole life moving to smaller and smaller Orthodox schismatic groups until it is just YOU and a handful of others who "keep the pure faith from the days of the apostles"

I know. I have nowhere else to go to. I will stay in my present church until I move to another city, then hopefully I can attend a ROCOR church. I just love the Slavonic chant!