Evolution and an Orthodox Patristic understanding of Genesis

[Pravoslavnik]

Joasia,

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  With all due respect, you need to study some of the basic data of geology and paleontology.  Rather than my reiterating the very cogent, clear illustrations of the scientific defects in Henry Morris's "New Earth creationist" theory, you should read Kenneth Miller's excellent text, [i]Finding Darwin's God[/i].  (He has an entire chapter devoted to this very topic.)
  If you want to understand the significance of Einstein's theory of relativity for the Hebraic understanding of the Genesis text, you should study Gerald Schroeder's book [i]The Science of God[/i].  Your zeal and faith is comendable, but I notice that you have not really understood a word of what I have said, nor have you identified the bona fide  Orthodoxy "heresy" resulting from a belief in Darwinian evolutionary theory as an explanation of the data of paleontology.  One of the points that Professor Miller makes in his analysis is that science, properly understood, does not contradict the cosmology of traditional Christianity.  Miller is, himself, a believing Roman Catholic.  (And please don't digress into a lengthy discussion of East vs. West, here.   I am fully aware of the theological issues relevant to the Great Schism.)

[joasia]

Pravoslavnik,

With all due respect, you need to study some of the basic data of geology and paleontology.

I have studied the Christian explanation. What I don't know are the authors you refer to. If you can give an example, that would be great. I'm not going to read these books you mentioned. I have so many other books that I'm reading.

but I notice that you have not really understood a word of what I have said, nor have you identified the bona fide Orthodoxy "heresy" resulting from a belief in Darwinian evolutionary theory as an explanation of the data of paleontology

This is the perfect time to bring up their views, so that we can discuss them. You know them, since you read their works, but you aren't saying anything to explain what they said...that is why I don't understand what you are talking about, because you are talking about their works as if we have read them. Point out some specific views and then I can comment on them. What is the Orthodox heresy that is a result of the Darwin theory? Orthodoxy does not support Darwin's theory.

Are you saying that there is an Orthodox belief that is taught which stems from the heresy of Darwinism?

THIS...you have to explain.

One of the points that Professor Miller makes in his analysis is that science, properly understood, does not contradict the cosmology of traditional Christianity

So if it doesn't contradict Christianity, then what are you and I arguing about?

The best analysis of how the various "creationist" theories fail to explain the biological data is presented by Brown University Professor of Biology, Kenneth Miller, in his book Finding Darwin's God. Any Orthodox clergyman writing and teaching about this subject needs, at a minimum, to carefully study Miller's text.

Here, you are saying that creationists have a flaw in their explanation. But, you just said that proper science supports Christianity. And creationists explain the truth of the Bible with science. So which is it?

Plus, you didn't even bother to respond to my comments. Looks like you can't handle the confrontation.

You make ambiguous comments and remarks but you don't address my post. I can't even tell if you are an evolutionist or a creationist, because your comments contradict both views, AT THE SAME TIME.

[Pravoslavnik]

"So if it doesn't contradict Christianity, then what are you and I arguing about?"

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    Dear Joanna,

        Take a few moments to review the thread of this discussion.  It began with the premise, derived mainly from Protestant Fundamentalism and Henry Morris's "New Earth creationism," that one cannot be an Orthodox Christian and also accept the Darwinian theory of evolution as the best explanation for the data of paleontology.  You and others also insisted that evolutionary theory is inconsistent with the sacred scriptures.  The Orthodox Christian author, Dr. Alexander Kalomiros, (best known for his book [i]Against False Union[/i]) certainly disagreed with this Protestant notion, and so do I.  That is the issue that you raised and argued about, even claiming that Darwinian evolutionary theory is an Orthodox heresy--somewhat like the Roman Catholics who charged Galileo with heresy for once claiming that the earth revolved around the sun.   I asked you to identify the heresy and you did not.  If you want to learn more about this subject, read the references I mentioned.  If you are not interested, that is none of my business.

[joasia]

You keep saying "Orthodox heresy". That means that there is an Orthodox teaching that is heretic. Do you mean that this is a heresy that the Orthodox identify as being against the Orthodox teachings of creation? Don't call it Orthodox heresy. See what I mean?

You asked for the name of the heresy that Cyprian mentioned and I told you that it's called Evolution. The evolution theory that stems from Darwin, is a religion; it is not science. Is that what you wanted to know? Why isn't that clear??

This is a discussion group. So I asked for examples, from these authors. You continuously respond for me to read the book.

You wrote:

Among other things, Schroeder demonstrates very clearly how the 15 billion years of earth's history--measured from the perspective of the earth--have actually passed in about six 24 hour days, when time is measured from the theoretical point at which the Big Bang occurred. The events described in Genesis fit rather precisely with Schroeder's astronomical clock, expecially when they are understood and interpreted in the original Hebrew.

My original response was wrong. I wasn't reading it clearly. It was late when I wrote it.

Why should I read his book when he teaches lies. The earth is not billions of years old and that the Big Bang occurred. Was he there? He weaves lies in with truth. He supports that the creation occurred in 6 days(to support Genesis), but states that earth is billions of years old(evolution lie). HOW can he know how old it is: was he there? EARTH is only 6,000 years old. It, Adam and Eve and nature were created in 6 days. The Holy Fathers gave us the facts because the Holy Spirit worked through them.

You have to be careful what you read. If they states things that don't support the creation view, along side Biblical support, then they are teaching heresy mixed in with truth. There are Creationist that teach accurately and support everything in the Bible with science.

In Christ, Joanna

[尼古拉前执事]

I just want to add two things in here.

If God could make Adam a fully grown man and did not create him as an embryo or infant, then why could he not also create the Earth fully grown and aged to an appropriate age?

Evolution and the ever-changing "scientific" age of the Earth are merely scientific theories. It takes Faith to believe in them, and I have more Faith in the Bible and the Holy Fathers of our Church than in this world's fallen princes, in sons of men.

[jckstraw72]

I just want to add two things in here.

If God could make Adam a fully grown man and did not create him as an embryo or infant, then why could he not also create the Earth fully grown and aged to an appropriate age?

Evolution and the ever-changing "scientific" age of the Earth are merely scientific theories. It takes Faith to believe in them, and I have more Faith in the Bible and the Holy Fathers of our Church than in this world's fallen princes, in sons of men.

beautiful! i completely agree.

[joasia]

If God could make Adam a fully grown man and did not create him as an embryo or infant, then why could he not also create the Earth fully grown and aged to an appropriate age?

The Holy Fathers don't teach that the earth is billions of years old. Everything started from the point and time of Adam and Eve. Genesis explains it in days. The earth was not created billions of years ago. It's the common mantra of evolutionists whose main purpose is to support their lies that we developed from rocks.

In Christ, Joanna