conversion or subversion?

garrypaulfrancis · Post by **garrypaulfrancis** » Wed 16 May 2007 12:52 am

i am new to the forum and this is my first post......
theologically and spiritually the people on hear seem to be the brightest of the participants in Christian online forums so, it is to you
i turn to with a simple question. my hope is that it will spur some discussion and give me some outside perspective on an issue i have meditated on for a while.
in order to let you know where this question arises from, here is some pretext. i will spare you the long winded details.
i come from an Irish Catholic family. my grandmother who was not
a fan of Rome (hence the Irish Catholic label) stopped attending church after the "reforms", of Vatican II. my dad was born in 1937
and followed suit. i was raised with all the trappings of an old catholic upbringing but, attended mass on my own whenever i desired. i have always been an avid reader of theology and church history. many years ago as i went further back in my readings i discovered orthodoxy and at the same was relived to find that it agreed with my feelings toward matters i found to be suspicious within in Rome's closet. (pretty much everything following the seventh ecumenical council) i attended the liturgy at a Greek Orthodox some time ago and felt exactly like i was where i needed to be. i have not returned and i don't plan to until i sort the case i am about to present to you out.
should a person in my case abandon the burning ship for the comfort of a spiritual lifeboat? or stay on board and try to be one
of the people who attempts to help turn it towards more orthodox
waters?
i am not looking for an answer, just some discussion......

pardon my choppy sentences and poor attention to grammar. i had too much to get out but, did not want to bog you all down with boorish details. thanks

GOCPriestMark · Post by **GOCPriestMark** » Wed 16 May 2007 2:09 am

Hi Garry,

Rome is more than "suspicious" in everything after the 7th Ecumenical Council. I am going to try not to give you an answer since you have asked to not hear one, (funny thing for someone who asks a question ), but I suspect that the understanding of the theology and history you read is still lacking as evidenced by calling Papism "the burning ship" and the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church a "lifeboat".

garrypaulfrancis · Post by **garrypaulfrancis** » Wed 16 May 2007 3:20 am

oof! I guess there was a bit of understatement in my language. The ship was sunk a long time ago. I guess there is just a small bit of familial nostalgia hanging around my neck as a residue. For the last two years everything I have studied has been Orthodox in nature
so, it is not that I need further proof to tip me away from being a lPapist. While visiting the Greek church I was able to sit and have coffee after the liturgy. We discussed the church fathers. It was a
completely different experience than what I was used to up to that point. I guess it is naive to think one person could change anything
in such a bureaucracy. I did ask a question and that does warrant an answer. Thank you for responding and pardon my poor use of metaphor. I meant no disrespect.

frphoti · Post by **frphoti** » Wed 16 May 2007 5:18 am

The familia/nostalgia is normal. I was born and raised RC too, and I have much of that feeling still. I still have 'romantic-esque' feelings about the Carthusians, whom I would have loved to belong to. I even went and saw that movie "into Great Silence" and thought it was great. That was my life. But they are wrong in their RC beliefs.
My mother's an agnostic, but I still get warm fuzzy feelings about different times with her during my youth. I still love her, and love to think about her, but she's wrong. That doesn't mean i stick around with her false beliefs just because of my feelings towards her.
did any of that make any sense?
When I finally left the RC's, I jumped ship quickly. Once you have realized where the Truth is, you need to get there fast,as your soul might be in jeopardy if you dilly-dally.

Good luck, and start swimming as soon as you hit the water, else you sink and drown.

Fr. Deacon Photios

joasia · Post by **joasia** » Wed 16 May 2007 6:41 pm

Garry,

Save yourself and a thousand others will be save around you.

I am a former Papist memeber. My whole family is Papist and they don't question it. I read Orthodox books for 6 years before I took the plunge and I never looked back. It was such a strong calling to become baptised that I knew it was the only right thing to do and nobody could have stopped me. It's been 14 years since I was made a catechumen and 13 since I was baptised.

The spiritual wisdom was always appealing to me, but what really hooked me was when I learnt the church history and learnt about the Great Schism of 1054 A.D. It was so clear, the Papists are wrong. The Protestants are wrong and all the other denominations and religions.

I think you already know the answer to your question/request; your heart feels it. Don't you feel that urgency like you need to make a move or bust? There's a deep emotional feeling that can make a person break down and sob with his whole body. The calling is so powerful.

You can't change the Papist establishment, but you can change yourself and nobody has the right to force you from worshipping Christ in truth. Read the lives of St. Catherine the Great, St. Mary of Egypt, St. Pelagia and Fr. Seraphim Rose. There are plenty others but these are the ones that come to mind. Their moment of decision was instant. But, beware of obsticles. You will be fought back. Are you ready for the spiritual warefare?

In Christ,

Joanna