Women in the priesthood

[Myrrh]

In Orthodox theology a priest is the leading voice of the whole community in worship, all worship is communal, all prayers are in the plural "we", it is not the priest who offers the sacrifice but all the worshippers together - so it is not possible as in the West where they have the priest 'acting as Christ', "in persona Christi", for an Orthodox priest to offer the sacrifice on his own. In other words, he has no office without at least one other, "where two or three are gathered in my name there I am", for us Christ the High Priest in the order of Melchisedek is not absent. The whole ecclesia is the ordained priesthood as the royal priesthood, the Body of Christ. So for the Orthodox the priest's function is to be the leading voice, without one other to voice the amen there is no liturgy. There is no reason why this function, which is to be the leading voice of the whole priesthood, men and women both, can't be done just as well by a woman. In Christ there is neither male nor female.

Or, we could insist that only circumcised Jews are priests...

Myrrh

[Myrrh]

Should women be given access to the sacerdotal priesthood (deacon, presbyter, bishop)? Let me hear your arguments for or against.

We can see how easily un-Orthodox idea have infiltrated the Church in the subject of celibate priests, where today we have some quoting the un-Orthodox canons to justify the reality that we have celibate bishops, but this reality came about because of historic circumstances - the domination of the celibate monastics in control and not because the principle of married bishops was being denied. We also see that the historic reality that women deacons in the Orthodox Church were ordained to the sacerdotal priesthood as is shown by the prayers is denied now because in the centuries of male domination the office was downgraded and circumscribed by all kinds of restrictions to limit women's participation and I think arguing from the reality now, lost history and personal prejudices, is not helpful in this discussion. We still remember that the Apostles were also women, this has been completely lost from the RCC changes on in the West, if woman are fully capable of being Equal-to-the-Apostles what makes them incapable of holding any of the offices in the Church?

Myrrh

[james cooper]

no no no no no never
james the sinnner

[Archangel]

We are Orthodox. We are not led by modern egalitarian ideology. Feminism is a secular theory, socialist in origin.
We follow the Scriptures, the Fathers and the canons, none of which allow women neither to speak in the church nor to lead the congregation. They are not forbidden to teach the Church. Christ chose no women as apostles (priests), even as Old Israel before him never chose women as priests.
The Orthodox Church likewise has never ordained women as priests, if only because women are not permitted to have authority over men. "The woman was made for the man, not the man for the woman," wrote St Paul. Indeed, Adam was made first, then, the woman. Although his equal ontologically, she was not made for leadership. In addition, it was she who, as St John Chrysostom said, "taught once and brought the human race to ruin."
Furthermore, the priest must be the image of Christ; Christ was of the male sex, as St Gregory the Theologian and St Theodore the Studite observed; therefore, only men may be priests. Also, women must be in voluntary submission, for it is by this act of humility that she finds her salvation.
You are aware that the Church is the Body of Christ. The Church is "she"; hence, the male head and the female body. Read the fifth chapter of St Paul's letter to the Ephesians. Thus, the priest must be male, the church his female complement.
That is the order of nature; thus, Adam and Eve, Yahweh and Israel, Christ and the Church.But there is an order of redemption: husband's service, wife's obedience.
The argument for women in the priesthood must not hang on the example of female deacons (if in fact that is what they were). St Epiphanius of Salamis tells us that the office of deaconess must not be confused with the office of priest. The former, he said, cannot do what the priest has been ordained to perform. Her duties are restricted to women's affairs. That women served as deacons in Justinian's Hagia Sophia (6th c), even serving at the altar, only proves the history church is not without its abberations.
The ineligibility of women for the priesthood is not reflection on her ability or devotion. She is denied this office according to the divine economy.
We follow the holy Fathers, not Madam Elizebeth Behr-Sigel. We are obedient to the Holy Scriptures, not the Feminine Mystique.

[joasia]

CHRIST IS RISEN!

Myrr wrote:

We still remember that the Apostles were also women, this has been completely lost from the RCC changes on in the West, if woman are fully capable of being Equal-to-the-Apostles what makes them incapable of holding any of the offices in the Church?

You're taking the concept out of context. If it was acceptable, then there would have been women ordinations in the church from the beginning. Stick with the facts, not postulations...which are modern and disrespectful to the holy truth.

Indeed, there were some women who were named as Equal-to-the Apostles. This means that they spread the word of God, by teaching non-Christians about Christ; they were missionaries. They did not preach in the churches. For example, there was St. Nina of Georgia, Equal-to-the Apostles. She brought the word of God, hence Chrisitianity to a nation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-to-apostles

Archangel wrote:

Also, women must be in voluntary submission, for it is by this act of humility that she finds her salvation.

Men tend to focus on this part as the ONLY reason. That, in itself, should be weighed carefully. Don't forget that the Theotokos is honored, by God, above all creation, after Christ. And don't forget that the women were the first to receive the message of Christ's ressurection, when they went to the tomb, without fear, but the men hid like cowards, in the apartment for fear of being arrested. And Christ admitted who He is to the Samaritan woman, at the well (John 4:25,26).

She is denied this office according to the divine economy.

This is another example of male negativity. God doesn't deprive anyone. It's more accurate to say that men and women are given their respective duties in the church. Or can we say that men are deprived of giving birth? God teaches that the church of faithful consist of many parts, like the human body. Each part cannot be considered the main focus of the body. All parts must work together to function as God intended.

Women should not be over-exhaulted neither underminded. A woman is not more or less than a man and a man is not above or below a woman.

But, men and women should stand equally, in respect to their worship of Christ and their responsibilities to preserve their faith and to confess it, when necessary, for there were as many women martyrs as men.

God created man and woman to be equal and in honoring God, we should honor each other, for we may be male or female in flesh but we are all the same in spirit.

In Christ, Joanna

[Archangel]

Those messages which favor the ordination of women do not appeal to the Scriptures, the Canons or the holy Fathers for their argument. An Orthodox is not persuaded by anything but these authorities. Whatever your intelligence, whatever your eloquence, whatever your frustration, it means nothing to me or to any Orthodox worth his/her salt. We are faithful to the Apostolic Tradition alone: the Scriptures, the Canons and the holy Fathers are the supreme witnesses to it.

[Archangel]

Show me, then, from the holy Tradition of the Church --- make a study of the appearance of women in icons (including the Theotokos) --- that women should be priests or that men have deprived them of a sacerdotal ministry granted to the female sex by Christ. I do not want to hear anything else. I do not care what the world thinks, and neither should you.