I suppose I can both agree and disagree. Certainly when Fr. Seraphim Rose was accepted and supported by St. John and later Vladyka Antoniy, I can recall it being a bit controversial.
Nonetheless, the Hierarchs did accept him regardless of the murmuring in the flock. This is what seems to have changed, and this is why I would wonder if this isn't a new development.
Christ is Risen!
I think a distinction between supporting the Russian culture for reasons of nationality and for reasons of unity is based on two different mind-frames. On nationality, it focuses on the fact that we are Russians and the language and culture must be sustained unto the next generations; they want to keep the non-Russians out. On the basis of unity, I think that the comment that Met. Tikhon made was meant for the Russian people to remember their roots...to honor the Russian Orthodox Church of times passed because they are falling away.
The first example, specifies keeping the language and not allowing English influence. Wake up! We are in North America. There are people, like myself that will come to Orthodoxy without the Russian or Greek language...our hearts accept Orthodoxy...but, we'd like to hear the chants in English because then we can follow along and participate with our hearts, because we understand the words. Afterall, I read about the Orthodoxy teachings in English because I want to understand.
I understand the Holy Liturgy in Greek and Russian; I have an ability to pick up languages. But, I only know the main parts. I don't understand the details of the chants for certain feast days or the specific akathist or kontikion of that day. I miss out on that. I only learn about it because I read Orthodox books that quote some chants for certain feast days and then I know what is being taught.
But, if I heard the chants in English...I wouldn't have to read so many books to understand what is being chanted. Language is not the enemy...ignorance and prejudice is.
On Pentecost the Apostles were given the gift of different languages. God wanted to reach out to the people so that they could UNDERSTAND. A priest told me, one day, that it's not important to understand the language, but that our souls were hearing the Divine words and that was enough. That is completely wrong. I can't learn anything about the spiritual beauty of Orthodoxy if I don't understand what is being said.
God gave us intelligence and a mind to use. And our souls are touched by what we hear and understand. If our souls are affected by the negative things we hear then we should have a fighting chance to understand the positive things.
In Christ, Joanna
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)
I would submit for your consideration that this Russian language prejudice is in part what has led to our (ROCOR-L) current state of embracing the MP.
After all - they speak better Russian than some 2nd or 3rd generation cradle ROCOR, and of course, better Russian is better Orthodoxy. Perhaps this is their thinking.
As someone who grew up with many languages, including Russian, Slavonic, English and French, I find English translations of Orthodox prayers or services a bit stilted. The Slavonic versions have a bit more specificity to me which the English versions never quite seem to capture. That is me. I appreciate the fact that OCS is now a language devoted solely to worship.
I feel it is a mistake for the Orthodox to circle the wagons and look inward rather than carry out our tradition of looking outward and bringing others in. It is ironic that the same people who embrace ecumenism also seem to be trying to exclude non-Russians.
For me, when I hear a service in English I find myself translating back into Slavonic - but I certainly don't resent a priest who uses the local language or whose homilies are targeted to people with different backgrounds than mine. There is room for all of us at the table so long as we share one common belief system.
Christ is Risen!
Stumbler,
If we are to talk about languages then I will ask you if you have heard the Holy Liturgy in Greek...because I will tell you that the Greek language came before the Russian. Should the Greeks have oppressed the Russians to use their language? How would the Russians have understood anything?
I find the Greek chants far superior to the Russian version. I think the Russians lost alot of emphasis in their translations. Afterall, the Greeks developed it first. And I'm a Pole, so go figure.
What it comes down to is that the language that the people understand is what they should hear. The chants are not sanctified because they are said in Russian...because the Russian language wasn't part of the Byzantine Empire.
In Christ, Joanna
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)
Christ is Risen!
Why doesn't anybody respond to that?
Anyways, Stumbler, I was referring to your view that the Russian language is superior to the "tilted" English version. Yes, the Russian and Greek languages are more dynamic, but the meanings expressed are equal with the English. I read my English prayer book and God's wrath, mercy and love is expressed just as well.
I think that the sensitive point is that there is much nationality involved with Orthodox countries which forgets the true significance of Christ's teachings and the chants that express it...our salvation. Instead there is a need to equate nationality with Orthodoxy. The faith is universal...it's just concentrated more in certain countries. The Greeks felt that the Russians weren't Orthodox enough and the Russians feel that the English aren't Orthodox enough. Get over the cultural differences and just focus on the spiritual significance.
In Christ, Joanna
Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)
Yes, you are right. The church is losing people due to these old languages few people really understand. Even if you understand like Joasia and I, the fixed part of the liturgy and vespers, following a matin service and particularly the 9 odes without translation is impossible.
Unfortunately in France, those who advocate for these old languages are still in a comfortable jurisdiction in many jurisdictions. For instance, in Paris, the Greek bishop banned French in his cathedral, leading many people to leave and join French speaking parishes. As concerns the Russians, there is a migration from people from Russia, Ukrain and so on, which is making some parishes look like ethnic ghettos were the local language is not tolerated!!! The problem is that generally French parishes are ecumenist and modernist.
I think traditionnalist churches should take profit of this to make missionary work!
Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.
