Joint MP-ROCOR meeting calls English Liturgy "Protestan

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尼古拉前执事
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Joint MP-ROCOR meeting calls English Liturgy "Protestan

Post by 尼古拉前执事 »

From http://www.russianchurchusa.org/index.p ... 4930&ln=en

ROCOR-MP Joint Meeting wrote:

"Participants of discussion were unanimous in the thought that joint work of hierarchs, clergy, and laity of the united Russian Orthodox Church will accomplish an essential level of the protection of the interests of those faithful who speak Russian language and are not wishing to succumb to a new style English speaking assimilation, that appears to redefine Orthodox Christianity in form of comforting protestant tradition."

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Sean
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Post by Sean »

Phyletism goes hand in hand with ecumensm. The eidolon of Russo-centrism supplants God. This is one of the driving forces behind this false union.

Some people prefer cupcakes. I, for one, care less for them...

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TomS
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Post by TomS »

"redefine Orthodox Christianity in form of comforting protestant tradition"

Well, taking this to the extreme, since the Russians received Orthodoxy from the Greeks, didn't they "redefine Orthodox Christianity in form of comforting Russian tradition"?

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joasia
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Post by joasia »

Christos Anesti...Christos Voskresi!

Quote:

"Participants of discussion were unanimous in the thought that joint work of hierarchs, clergy, and laity of the united Russian Orthodox Church will accomplish an essential level of the protection of the interests of those faithful who speak Russian language and are not wishing to succumb to a new style English speaking assimilation, that appears to redefine Orthodox Christianity in form of comforting protestant tradition."

That is so close-minded. How are the English-speaking people going to learn about Orthodoxy and brought to the truth if they don't hear the word of God in English? I'd sure like to hear the chants in English. Then my heart can be lifted up with the words, instead of looking at my watch and wondering when the service will end.

Afterall, I read Orthodox books that are in English and I guarentee everybody here...I learn alot more than if they were written in Russian; cause I don't read Russian, duh. The Word of God is not limited to language...the Apostles are the perfect example for that; on Pentecost they were given the gift of languages to spread the Gospel of God. They didn't distinguish who would be accepted or not because they wanted to keep the language to themselves.

The MP and ROCOR don't care about bringing souls to Christ. They care about national pride. It will be to their condemnation. St. John Maximovitch never limited himself to the language barrier.

The only "language" that the MP and ROCOR speak is ecumenism; this has become a universal language. And the protestants speak it well...so basically, these Russians are hypocrites; they pray with the protestants....

Nothing can redefine Orthodoxy; that is such a worldly mentality. How does someone redefine an absolute Truth? That's like saying a person can redefine oxygen...because oxygen is an erroneous state. Yeah, right.

Here is an English translation of my favorite chant: Christ has risen from the dead, by death trampling upon death, and has bestowed Life to those in the tombs.

Indeed He is Risen!

Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)

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Post by Helen »

I myself am an English speaking Orthodox person. My ethnicity is Russian and I speak, read and write Russian a bit better than most of my contemporary counterparts, but I am thoroughly frustrated with the resistance to change any Russian religious traditions in the 'west' in spite of the fact (as I believe), that many people are being lost to other religions (be that churchly or secular). For example I know that most (if not all) the youth that attend our churches do not understand Slavonic, and even most of the older people. Yet in a bid to keep the Russian traditions, we put our Orthodoxy at risk.

In my personal life I'm observing that many convert's belonging to different Russian jurisdictions do not fully understand how far-reaching this nationalistic pride really is. Often when I speak to converts regarding this issue they are unaware of the prejudice within these 'extreme' Russian nationalist's they are in contact with. And it only makes sense that as an extreme Russian nationalist you would not express your extreme views to those who belong to the culture that you critisize, especially if you want them to attend your church. Hope I don't put anyone off Orthodoxy in saying that - it's just another one of many tempations we all face in our earthly life and struggle for the Heavenly Kingdom and plus not all Russians are like that. My point in saying this is that comments made on this thread imply that this type of nationalistic pride and "World" Orthodoxy go hand in hand. I would dispute that assertion. This sort of nationalistic pride goes right across the board of different Russian jurisdictions. I know this from very personal experience of 'Russian pride' in jurisdictions other than the MP and ROCOR.

I believe (but stand open to correction if anyone can prove otherwise) that the following quote by Bishop Tikhon's address to the clergy and flock of ROCOR, implies that this Church also is more interested in preversing 'RUSSIAN' Orthodoxy than cultivating intelligent (conscious and deliberate, with knowledge and understanding) Orthodoxy in the hearts and minds of their flock by introducing English into their Church traditions. I realise there is not a direct indication of this in the quote, but use of the words "Russian feat" as oposed to "Orthodox feat" only ring too many familiar bells in my head. And not that I oppose Russian traditions, but I certainly oppose stubborn resistance to be flexible in the light of 'Western' circumstances.I hope my words haven't been too harsh and ask forgiveness if they have been.

"The bishops of the Russian True Orthodox Church are making an appeal to the ROCOR clergy and flock not to leave the Church Abroad in search of canonical shelter in different Greek jurisdictions but to preserve the canonicity and traditions of the Local Russian Church having had Her own autocephaly over several centuries, to continue the feat, “Russian feat”, started by their fathers. This feat, which the Russian Church Outside of Russia has carried all these years in foreign and often hostile environments. Therefore, the bishops of the RTOC are appealling to the clergy and flock of ROCOR including to those not of Russian origin, not to leave their Mother – The Russian Orthodox Church which provided them Holy Baptism and continuous spiritual nourishment."

http://www.catacomb.org.ua/modules.php? ... e&pid=1101

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stumbler
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Post by stumbler »

I think it is interesting to note in light of Helen's remarks the similarity between those Russians who focus on the Russian language as an essential part of their Orthodoxy and the Roman insistence on the Latin mass, which persisted into the 1960's.

The Russian Orthodox tradition itself is the result of Sts Cyrill and Methody adapting Orthodoxy and making it understandable to the Slavs by translating services and Gospels into Slavonic, and inventing an alphabet along the way.

I think as Orthodox people it is part of our tradition to incorporate local languages and sometimes even some local customs into the fold of greater Orthodoxy.

It was Rome that insisted on Latin until very, very recently.

Why so Roman all of a sudden, old MP and New ROCOR?

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Helen
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Post by Helen »

Dear Stumbler

"Why so Roman all of a sudden, old MP and New ROCOR?"

I think it's always been 'Roman', the latest statement by the joint Churches is just an official expression of what has always been. I just think that it's very sad that it's gotten to that level of acceptance.

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