Schismatic Old Calendarism is an Anti-Patristic Stance

[buzuxi]

For me there is no traditional orthodox or world orthodox, I'm neither old calendar nor new, but I am an Orthodox christian .

We can make insults calling one bishop a heretic and another an immoral, one right believing another wrong believing , but these have always existed in the church. I dont believe anyone here wishes to start a witch hunt or an Inquisition. I dont believe there should be a Mcarthy of Orthodoxy to interrogate everyone, to examine every iota of ones beliefs in an attempt to purge everything that we may deem false. What is wrong with the church? I am, for i'm a sinner. If i found a church full of perfect saints, should i join it? No,for it would no longer be perfect.

Bishop Petros of Astoria of blessed memory never signed the 1974 declaration, yet some may consider him an ecumenist for holding to a moderate ecclesiology another may consider him a schismatic and outside the Church. Metropolitan Augustinos of the state church of Greece maybe considered too conservative or scandalous from members of his own flock for wanting a return to the Church Calendar and calling the old calendarists devout Orthodox christians, at the same time old calendarists may consider him an ecumenist heretic.

I consider the old calendarists my brethren in the faith even if they consider me a heretic. We are united by a common faith, a common praxis and united mystically in the same sacraments.
Orthodoxy has always taught that the fullness of the catholic church is found in each local parish gathered with their bishop to celebrate that Gift which unites us; the Body and Blood of Christ our Lord.

Every one who knows me, knows that i criticise and have harsh words whether your a new calendarist or not, if your zeal attempts to create a further wedge between us, or even worse; a civil war. For me this is not "us" verse "them".

It is an undeniable fact both sides violate canons and quote the Church Fathers indiscriminately. Both of ususe words of our Holy Fathers as weapons against each other. There are divisions among us, no doubt, as there are divisions within "world Orthodoxy" on the question of ecumenism and there are divisions among "traditional Orthodox" synods, yet we create a cold war towards each other, not fearing the Teaching of our Lord: "Every house divided against itself cannot stand". Christ tore the veil between us and His Father yet we try to erect an Iron curtain, personally i wont be a part of it.

Thus in our Lenten journey lets examine our own faults taking heed and not forgetting what our common Salvation, God, and Savior Jesus Christ taught us: " For with what judgement you judge , you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brothers eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye"

We may have the zeal of the Fathers but we do not have their holiness.

[GOCTheophan]

In the words of Blessed Metropolitan Anthony of Kiev to the Old Calendarist-supporting Fr. Theododius of Mt. Athos in 1930:

"Of course, I do not agree with your conclusion at all. The question remains that while recognizing holy tradition and witnessing their violation, in this case by the Greeks, one must still pose the following question: does such violation justify ecclesiastical separation or only reproof? You, Father, are one step away from falling into prelest. May the Mother of God preserve you from the next step. I write to you as a benevolent friend: do not destroy your 40-year podvig by a judgment of the Church on the basis of your relative formalism - relative and also arbitrary. The new calendar is no less distasteful to me than it is to you, but even worse is a break from Orthodoxy and its hierarchy..."

[/i]

"Blessed" Anthony was a heretic falling under the anathemas of at least councils one of which (the council of Carthage) was approved by an Ecumenical Council (Im in an internet cafe so cant check which one now).

Anyone who denies basic teachings about original sin and Redemption cannot be consider "Blessed" or even a Christian ( I believe that it okay to call many Protestants and Roman Catholics Christian). His views on the Calender question just go show once again how far from True Orthodoxy this unfortunate man was.

I hope someone will post the writings of St Theophan the New Recluse (my patron saint!) on the Calendar question. Now there was a monk and a theologian! The fact that he has been largely ignored shows how far we all have fallen.

Theophan.

[Jean-Serge]

"Blessed" Anthony was a heretic falling under the anathemas of at least councils one of which (the council of Carthage) was approved by an Ecumenical Council (Im in an internet cafe so cant check which one now).

Anyone who denies basic teachings about original sin and Redemption cannot be consider "Blessed" or even a Christian ( I believe that it okay to call many Protestants and Roman Catholics Christian). His views on the Calender question just go show once again how far from True Orthodoxy this unfortunate man was.
Theophan.

If Metropolitan Anthony was an heretic, than those who remained in communion with him were heretic too, so ROCOR was heretic and lost grace in the 1930s. I think one should make a distinction between someone in heresy and someone who is mistaken, like for example Blessed Augustine of Hippone.

I did read this book by Metropolitan Anthony but some people said in fact he did not talk clearly but simply wanted to insist that NOT only Crucifixion served to redeem man but the whole Christ's life, an aopinion that is alose shared by Saint Justin of Celije.

[GOCTheophan]

[If Metropolitan Anthony was an heretic, than those who remained in communion with him were heretic too, so ROCOR was heretic and lost grace in the 1930s. I think one should make a distinction between someone in heresy and someone who is mistaken, like for example Blessed Augustine of Hippone.

I did read this book by Metropolitan Anthony but some people said in fact he did not talk clearly but simply wanted to insist that NOT only Crucifixion served to redeem man but the whole Christ's life, an aopinion that is alose shared by Saint Justin of Celije.

Good point. And this is what scares me. I think its clear from the existence of such people as St John the Wonderworker and St Philerat that ROCOR definitely HAD Grace. I even believe that they kept it until 2001 and pockets of Grace might have remained in them after that.

At the moment I am feeling confused about so much- but not about certain core things. I dont see how he CANT be considered a heretic seeing as he believed that those opposed to him were in prelest.

Theophan.

[Jean-Serge]

Well, we should read his whole writings but I don't think they have been translated to English.

[Michael]

Words of wisdom for us all...

Orthodox traditionalists have, for some curious reason, developed the perfidious idea that a genuine commitment to the Faith somehow makes them the "guardians" of that Faith, if not the upholders and confessors of the Truth. Spouting with what is frequently disingenuous piety the admonitions and chastisements of the great Fathers and Confessors of Orthodoxy, but lacking the Grace and wisdom with which the Church Fathers utter such things, these unwisely zealous individuals create an image of crassitude and vulgarity that is wholly foreign to the refinement that characterizes the whole of the Orthodox Patristic tradition. Lacking charity, hospitality, and external social graces, they defile the very traditions that they imagine themselves to be defending. Worse yet, they often appoint themselves public procurators of the Faith, imaging that, before correcting themselves and acknowledging their own sins, they have the right - and even the responsibility - to act as investigators and judges of the clergy, their fellow believers, and the various "heretics" and "defilers of the Faith" upon whom, as one Saint expressed it, they presumptuously believe that they have the right to "rain down fire" from on high. They frequently go beyond criticism, beyond the sharpness of words sometimes needed to correct the errant, and become contumelious critics of everyone, using crude, insulting, and rude language from the streets in the name of the Faith. This lack of refinement is one of the telltale signs of spiritual immaturity, of a lack of discernment and discretion, and of spiritual delusion. It is absolutey inconsistent with Orthodox observance and is characteristic of crass and uncouth behavior. It must be avoided if one wishes to pursue an observant Orthodox life...

[Anastasios]

[quote="mlillios"]Words of wisdom for us all...

Orthodox traditionalists have, for some curious reason, developed the perfidious idea that a genuine commitment to the Faith somehow makes them the "guardians" of that Faith, if not the upholders and confessors of the Truth. Spouting with what is frequently disingenuous piety the admonitions and chastisements of the great Fathers and Confessors of Orthodoxy, but lacking the Grace and wisdom with which the Church Fathers utter such things, these unwisely zealous individuals create an image of crassitude and vulgarity that is wholly foreign to the refinement that characterizes the whole of the Orthodox Patristic tradition. Lacking charity, hospitality, and external social graces, they defile the very traditions that they imagine themselves to be defending. Worse yet, they often appoint themselves public procurators of the Faith, imaging that, before correcting themselves and acknowledging their own sins, they have the right - and even the responsibility - to act as investigators and judges of the clergy, their fellow believers, and the various "heretics" and "defilers of the Faith" upon whom, as one Saint expressed it, they presumptuously believe that they have the right to "rain down fire" from on high. They frequently go beyond criticism, beyond the sharpness of words sometimes needed to correct the errant, and become contumelious critics of everyone, using crude, insulting, and rude language from the streets in the name of the Faith. This lack of refinement is one of the telltale signs of spiritual immaturity, of a lack of discernment and discretion, and of spiritual delusion. It is absolutey inconsistent with Orthodox observance and is characteristic of crass and uncouth behavior. It must be avoided if one wishes to pursue an observant Orthodox life...[/quote]

Wow, that is so true. I have met people like this both in the Old Calendarist and New Calendarist Churches, that think that having the right opinion means being an unchristian jerk to others. The only way to witness the truth is to witness it in love; otherwise, we lose our audience with the first vitriolic words that exit our mouths.