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gbmtmas

Introduction

Post by gbmtmas »

Last edited by gbmtmas on Thu 21 August 2003 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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尼古拉前执事
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ROCOR vs. OCA

Post by 尼古拉前执事 »

First off, welcome!

No offense meant in this defense, I hope you understand.

The OCA of course in the Orthodox church of America. ROCOR is the RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH Outside Russia. Many of the members have come directly from Russian and lost family members, sometimes in front of their own eyes, from the Godless authorities.

These people are Russian and came to America to escape, bringing us their religion with them. THANKS BE TO GOD FOR THAT! Do not expect them to have to Americanize their Faith for you when there are 1st generation Russians in a majority of the ROCOR Churches that they built.

I would rather be a little unconfortable and than be somewhere that teaches heresy as in the official OCA positiong thread. Which is more important? Comfort or truth?

Eventually ROCOR will Americanize, but do not expect it to be overnight just because the OCA has embraced all kinds of Americanisms once they broke away from ROCOR.

Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

gbmtmas,

Thank you for the introduction :) Oddly enough, I tend to agree with pretty much all you said in your last post. I also tend to disagree with you on some points, Nicholas. :)

When I became ROCOR, I had very similar fears that you are expressing, gbmtsmas. I had been a traditionalist in spirit at that point for quite a time, but none of the groups seemed like the perfect fit (practically/culturally/geographically speaking). I remember asking a couple different priests questions like "I'm a decidedly American person, will it cause scandal if I come into a Russia Church? What if I (unconsciously) try to start Americanizing the Church?" and so forth. The problem is especially acute for me because I'm not anywhere close to a lover of Russian culture (russophile?). I don't love (though I like) Russian food, I don't like Russian music at all (I much prefer Carpatho-Russian plain chant, or even Antiochian), I don't speak any Russian or Slavonik... it just seemed like ROCOR was the last place I "fit in" on a day to day, practical level.

I contact two ROCOR priests for help in this, one was an American-born, former OCA priest; and one was a former Greek Orthodox, American-born priest. Here is the response that the latter gave:

The Russian Church Abroad is, as you can see, a Russian Church. Our people are Russian, and it exists here because the Russians need the Church, and also because of the historical events of the 20th Century. These people are our families, and our flock, and so we have a duty to serve them. At the same time the Russian Church Abroad is an Orthodox Church, and I believe that the Russian Church was scattered throught the world by God's Providence for a reason. This gives rise to a twofold mission, the pastoral ministry of the Russian Diaspora, and as a witness to the truth of the Orthodox Church before the world. I am not saying that we do either of these things well, but that is what we need to keep in mind.

In process of time, the children of the Russian Diaspora become assimilated to the local culture, and many lose their Russian language, yet it is the duty of the Church to instill the Orthodox Faith in the next generation. Thus, apart from mission to local society, the Russian Church has need of English. It is our desire to do both. As for being accepted as a non-Russian, I do not think that you need to worry about that. Russians are hospitable people, and are willing to accept others who wish to live and pray with them. The trouble comes sometimes when zealous newcomers try to make over and change the character of the parish and call the Russian and Slavonic unnecessary and un-American.

What is important for you is, Where is the Truth? Where can I lead an Orthodox Christian life? Where can I raise my family in the Faith? These are things you have to answer for yourself after much prayer and consideration. Whatever you do, never forget love of God and love for others, both your new fellow parishioners, and those whom you have left behind.

I suppose where I disagree with Nicholas is that I don't believe that "Eventually ROCOR will Americanize". I believe that the Russian Church--as St. Seraphim of Sarov and other saints prophecied--will come back to life and be strong again, and I believe that ROCOR will be a part of that (after an all-Russian council all of the factions will be brought together -- I go here not be ecumenical hopes, but in my understanding of how prophecy probably will be fulfilled). I consider myself an American sojourner in a foreign land. It is a foreign land that I will defend with my life, because I do, in answer to the question in the quote above, believe the truth is in it. Yet it's not my own land. I'm an American (of Catholic, Czech, descent), not Russian Orthodox. I have great respect for the Russians, of course, but like you, I realised (and realise) that the concern and focus so often expressed by those in ROCOR could never be wholly my own. There is something that is intangible with you are a part of a people or culture--we Orthodox know this well, that you can't read enough and just decide to become totally Orthodox overnight. I can make the Russian causes my own, but they will never be stamped into my heart quite so deeply as they are stamped into the true Russian's hearts; and they will never spur me on quite as easily as they spur the true Russians on. But here I am, because of my own personal answers to the questions asked in the last paragraph of the quote above. :)

And so that people don't think that this is a "become ROCOR" post, hehe, I fully affirm that people could come to radically different conclusions than I did--or that perhaps the Russianess would just be too much for others. I don't say that there's any harm in taking another path :) I am glad you found this forum, though, gbmtmas, as I think you would add nicely to what is already a nice pot.

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