Who's gonna leave??!!!

[Pravoslavnik]

Joanna;

Code: Select all

  I am not trying to engage in doubtful disputations or mud-slinging with anyone.  In fact, I am simply trying to make sense of what is happening in the ROCOR, and have lost confidence in the judgement of our own ROCOR priest--an ardent Unionist full of Russian nationalist fervor--and our Archbishop, who has completely reversed his previous view of the Moscow Patriarchate during the past six years for inexplicable reasons.  At the same time, I do not have great confidence in my own spiritual judgement.  I could be suffering from some sort of prelest, for example.  Any advice for people in ROCOR parishes that have turned en masse toward the Moscow Patriarchate?  Quo vadis?  Where are my family and I supposed to go now?

[spiridon]

You and your Family are supposed to Trust in God, as god has always wanted us to do.

"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world, rather than on Christ" (Colossians 2:8).

[drewmeister2]

Joanna;

Code: Select all

  I am not trying to engage in doubtful disputations or mud-slinging with anyone.  In fact, I am simply trying to make sense of what is happening in the ROCOR, and have lost confidence in the judgement of our own ROCOR priest--an ardent Unionist full of Russian nationalist fervor--and our Archbishop, who has completely reversed his previous view of the Moscow Patriarchate during the past six years for inexplicable reasons.  At the same time, I do not have great confidence in my own spiritual judgement.  I could be suffering from some sort of prelest, for example.  Any advice for people in ROCOR parishes that have turned en masse toward the Moscow Patriarchate?  Quo vadis?  Where are my family and I supposed to go now?[/quote]

Yes, definately trust in God, as spiridon said. But now you must find a True parish, under a True Synod. If you are Russian, and want to stay with the Russian Church, the Russian Orthodox Autonomous Church ordained a new bishop for the US, Bp. ANDREI. They picked up two parishes last year, and God-willing they will pick up more. There is also the RTOC, under Abp. Tikhon, which is also steadily growing. Go to the Map here at the cafe to see if there is a parish near you.

[scwaterfowl]

Oh well; who cares???
Do as you wish, but if you are not in agreement with us, leave us to ourselves.
Those who are members of ROCOR have two choices; stay, embrace, and support the decision of of our Metropolitan and bishops, or leave. I think its awful funny that the naysayers against this re-unification like to "quote" or use certain ROCOR bishop's names to justify their anti-Moscow position. Who are they again??? What names were listed as supporters of re-unification???
Yeah, I thought so... So; did you intentionly lie, try to pad your own argument, or just trying to deceive? Please, please, answer this for me. Like that's gonna happen...
Nobody else has a dog in this fight, so let it alone.

[Pravoslavnik]

SCWaterfowl;

Code: Select all

   [color=red][i]Do not give what is holy unto dogs, lest they turn and rend you.[/i][/color]


     If you enter into communion with Patriarch Drozdov's pseudo-Church, I fear that the dogs of the new Comintern will turn and rend you more rapaciously than you might imagine, in time.  What is that old saying, "If you go to bed with the devil, you'd better expect to wake up in hell?"

     Names of holy heirarchs who professed that the Catacomb Church, rather than the Stalinist MP, was the true Orthodox Church of Russia?  Is that what you were inquiring about?

How about:

1) St. John of Kronstadt, who had a prophetic vision of widespread apostasy within the state "Church" of Russia prior to his death. Have you read that one?

2) St. Cyril of Kazan, the last surviving Locum Tenans appointed by St. Tikhon as head of the Russian Church, who very specifically told the world in his last epistle of 1934 that Metropolitan Sergius' "Church" administration was non-canonical?

3) St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco?

4) Blessed Metropolitan Philaret, who prophesized prior to his death that, "In the future the worldly people will unite with Moscow, and the remnant of the ROCOR who do not will be the true Church?"

Code: Select all

 Why has Metropolitan Laurus not glorified Blessed Philaret?  His body was found to be incorrupt recently.  Perhaps Laurus will hide the relics in the Moscow mansion that the KGB bought for him in the 1990's.

  By the way, can you name the heirarchs of the ROCOR who voted for the Act of Canonical Communion in September of 2006?  Did they have a canonical quorum for this vote?  If not, why do you consider it legitimate?

 [color=red][i]Do not give what is holy unto dogs, lest they turn and rend you.[/i][/color]

[kronstandt]

Pravoslavnik,
That is very interesting. I'd heard of St. John Kronstandt's sayings previously, but am unfamiliar with the other ones. By any chance do you have any citations for those as I'd be curious to look them up.
Thanks

[pjhatala]

1) St. John of Kronstadt, who had a prophetic vision of widespread apostasy within the state "Church" of Russia prior to his death. Have you read that one?

2) St. Cyril of Kazan, the last surviving Locum Tenans appointed by St. Tikhon as head of the Russian Church, who very specifically told the world in his last epistle of 1934 that Metropolitan Sergius' "Church" administration was non-canonical?

3) St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco?

4) Blessed Metropolitan Philaret, who prophesized prior to his death that, "In the future the worldly people will unite with Moscow, and the remnant of the ROCOR who do not will be the true Church?"

1.) This writing, sometimes atributed to St. John of Kronstadt, has never been proven to have come from his hand. Most historians who care about these kinds of things believe there is no way it possibly could have been written by him. See. Prof. Nadieszda Kizenko's "A Prodigal Saint".

2.)One man does not a council make. We've been over this.

3.) St. John of Shanghai and San Franciso is known to have comemmorated the Russian Patriarch in times when he was not sure of the status of the ROCOR hierarchy after WWII. He also comemmorated, perhaps more than once, both the head of the ROCOR and the Russian Patriarch in the same liturgy. See Andrei Popkov's research.

4.)Reference? St. Paul beleived Christ would return within his lifetime. It doesn't make him less of a saint. Church tradition and a spirit driven interpretation of canon law decide these matters, not individual interpretations of one person's supposed prophecy.