Who's gonna leave??!!!

[GOCTheophan]

If you can't be certain then don't confuse. They are just as canonical, if not more, than any of the other alphabet soups of "Traditional Orthodoxy" I will take them over the Homosexuals of HOCNA any day.

HOCNA are heretics, they are not Traditional Orthodox.

Met Kyprian was canonically defrocked in I think 1979. I hope someone else can supply the details.

On what grounds do you have believe they are "more" canonical?

If you cant be certain than you shouldnt want people trusting their eternal salvation with such groups.

I do thank God that Benjamin has left what has become an organization founded by Joseph Stalin. I just wish he had done the research that Reader Gaberial had done.

Theophan.

[Reader Nicholas]

If you can't be certain then don't confuse. They are just as canonical, if not more, than any of the other alphabet soups of "Traditional Orthodoxy" I will take them over the Homosexuals of HOCNA any day.

HOCNA are heretics, they are not Traditional Orthodox.

Met Kyprian was canonically defrocked in I think 1979. I hope someone else can supply the details.

On what grounds do you have believe they are "more" canonical?

If you cant be certain than you shouldnt want people trusting their eternal salvation with such groups.

I do thank God that Benjamin has left what has become an organization founded by Joseph Stalin. I just wish he had done the research that Reader Gaberial had done.

Theophan.

I am writing that they are probably more Orethodox than most on the same unproven grounds you write they are not.

Don't you realize by now that no one wants to be confused by the facts? If the truth ande facts mattered HOCNA would have disappeared years ago. But there are stilol those who claim all the accusations are false.

If the Old Calendarestis cared about the facts there would not be the cornucopia of jurisdictions which exists with each bishop (except for Metropolitan Kyprian) claiming he is the ONLY Orthodox Bishop and all others are without grace.

[Benjamin W. C. Waterhouse]

I do thank God that Benjamin has left what has become an organization founded by Joseph Stalin. I just wish he had done the research that Reader Gaberial had done.

Theophan.

How do you know I haven't?

Respectfully I think Reader Gabriel has made a mistake.

To reiterate, I am with a Church that ROCOR's Bishops stated in 1994 that the "Synod of Metropolitan Cyprian adheres wholly to the exact same ecclesiological and dogmatic principles as our Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia,"

in Him
SB

[GOCTheophan]

How do you know I haven't?

Respectfully I think Reader Gabriel has made a mistake.

To reiterate, I am with a Church that ROCOR's Bishops stated in 1994 that the "Synod of Metropolitan Cyprian adheres wholly to the exact same ecclesiological and dogmatic principles as our Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia,"

in Him
SB

Because it is quite clear that the Synod in Resistance is schismatic and you stated that schism is worse than heresy. They are not the continuation of the historic Church of Greece.

Did you see that Archbishop Mark had stated to Archimandrite Alexis that by joining the Synod in Resistance he was placing himself outside of the Church? Yet it was the same Archbishop Mark who pushed for union with that Synod in the first place? He used them and their ecclesiological principles to make even the idea of Union with the Soviet Church acceptable.

Look theologically the Christ the Saviour Brotherhood seemed very Orthodox, but was it a safe place for a believer to bow his head?

The synod under Archbishop Chyrstostomos II is definitely canonical and definitely Orthodox (and the largest in Greece).

Theophan.

[scwaterfowl]

Father Deacon,
I accept the public censure and I do understand that you are the owner of this site and make the rules. I would ask that review some of the previous posts, especially where Joanna refers to ROCOR bishops as "animals." While I admit my defence is lame and is definitely not Christian, I don't understand why she did not receive a 'scolding.'

The Teen forum is for teens; is it not? Since you have placed ROCOR in the category of World Orthodoxy, should not this forum be for ROCOR and the others you have put in this 'basket.'

And again, I'll post my position...
The MP has done EVERYTHING required in order to order a reunification of the Russian Church. EVERYTHING. They have repented, they have renounced Sergianism, they have glorified the New Martyrs, and they are not ecumenist. Regardless of what one or two reckless priests or bishops has done or said, its over. If there was a case to be made otherwise, the bishops of ROCOR would not have entered into talks with the MP.
If there is any more "information" that those of us who support this re-unification, please send them to Met. Laurus.

[Benjamin W. C. Waterhouse]

Because it is quite clear that the Synod in Resistance is schismatic and you stated that schism is worse than heresy. They are not the continuation of the historic Church of Greece.

Did you see that Archbishop Mark had stated to Archimandrite Alexis that by joining the Synod in Resistance he was placing himself outside of the Church? Yet it was the same Archbishop Mark who pushed for union with that Synod in the first place? He used them and their ecclesiological principles to make even the idea of Union with the Soviet Church acceptable.

Look theologically the Christ the Saviour Brotherhood seemed very Orthodox, but was it a safe place for a believer to bow his head?

The synod under Archbishop Chyrstostomos II is definitely canonical and definitely Orthodox (and the largest in Greece).

Theophan.

Au contraire - All that presupposes that I agree that the Synod in Resistance is schismatic - I don't and it isn't.

The good Erzbischof Mark has had his own agenda for a long time now, and in my experiance does not brook dissent.

I won't comment regarding your synod, but as we have shewn Fr Andrew P, numbers are not everything...

In Him
SB

[GOCTheophan]

Au contraire - All that presupposes that I agree that the Synod in Resistance is schismatic - I don't and it isn't.

The good Erzbischof Mark has had his own agenda for a long time now, and in my experiance does not brook dissent.

I won't comment regarding your synod, but as we have shewn Fr Andrew P, numbers are not everything...

In Him
SB

No numbers actually mean very little (if they mean anything at all), that was a stupid comment for me to make. Who is Fr Andrew P?

Also I dont think that Archbishop Mark has his own agenda, I believe he has someone or something else's agenda.

I am well aware that you dont consider them to be schismatic- otherwise you wouldnt have joined them. However why you dont is a mystery to me unless its simply for the fact that you believe that since ROCOR was in Communion with them they cant be schismatic.

Do you consider ROAC schismatic? I believe that you consider those in ROCOR who stayed loyal with Met Vitaly to be so. Given that Met Kyprian was defrocked in 1979 after organizing a secret and uncanonical ordination of himself in an attempt to take control of the Florinite synod (most of the others with him at that time repented) and than went to the Milian Synod (who Fr John Shaw tells us at that time were in Communion with the Old Catholics- but I admit he is not the most trustworthy of sources) who I believe no one recognises as canonical. Reader Vladimir accepts the Kyprianites on the grounds that they didnt have a proper canonical trial (according to themselves and Vladimir that is)- but neither did ROAC. So if ROAC are schismatic, than the Kyprianites definitely are so.

Those who stayed loyal to Met Vitaly clearly did so for reasons of the Faith. Can the same be said for Met Kyprian and those with him? When have they declared the other Florinite Old Calendarists (there writings on the Matthewites I understand border on just plain slander) heretical or even uncanonical? And if we are heretical that makes most of the Greek Old Calendar movement from the begining heretical, which is where Kyprian takes his priesthood from.

Do you see the real difficulties?

Theophan.