Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia

[Justin Kissel]

I can't speak for Peter, but I'll read the article by Moss tonight after I get home, and maybe post some thoughts tomorrow. In the future, if you wanted, you could just copy the link address out of the address bar up at the top of your browser, instead of posting the whole article (though people at this site are use to longer posts by now). The address might look something like this:

http://www.euphrosynoscafe.com/forum/po ... eply&t=522

Justin

PS. My favorite stuff by Chesterton was from before he was Catholic, while he was an Anglican (e.g., Orthodoxy: The Romance of the Faith)

[bogoliubtsy]

I read this paper some time ago, and will read it again soon so I'll be able to comment. My point in mentioning the state of Mr. Moss was to try and express the opinion that it is his way of thinking about the Orthodox Church that has effectively put him outside of the Church.

As far as your comment on Chesterton- I have to say, it seems pretty ridiculous. Non Orthodox can't have valid opinions or interesting things to say? Have whitty-ness and intellect now been usurped by the Only True Really Really True Orthodox Church too?
Keep in mind also that Chesterton was writing at the beginning of the 20th century... a time when it was far more difficult to find, learn about, or join the Orthodox Church than it is now when a jurisdiction and different "flavor" of Orthodoxy seems to be for sale on every corner. We've got one for people who really want to stay Protestant, one for people who want to replace heartfelt Orthodoxy with mere rationality and intellect, one with religiopaths who can act out their obsessive compulsive and paranoid behavior through their jurisdiction and its few members feeling secure in knowing they have the only "truth", some with diposed self-motivated bishops.

That's all.

[Methodius]

No offense Peter, but that is hypocritical. G.K. Chesterton and Vlad Moss have both found themselves outside of the Church and even outside the Church they can have valid opinions. It only takes one heresy to be outside of the Church and we cannot assume that everyone is now wrong if he is indeed out of the Church.

[bogoliubtsy]

Methodius,
I think the difference is though- Vladimir Moss waspart of the Church. He had discovered it, converted to it, and in it for a period of time. Then, as a result of a certain way of thinking(which may or may not be reflected in the above article) ended up leaving the Church, or the fullness of Truth. I'm wary of writings or theological opinions of those who were once in the Church but left it.
Chesterton on the other hand was never in the Church, and in addition to his religious writings, wrote on a great deal of other matters. He never had that fullness and then rejected it. He was an Englishman living in the 19th and early 20th century at a time, like I said before, when converting to Orthodoxy wasn't really so much of an option.

[bogoliubtsy]

P.S.
Priest Dionysi,
The Chesterton quote has been added by me as a "tag" to my every post. It automatically appears under each post I make. I'm not typing it every time. Thought maybe you thought I was adding it each time to try to work it into the conversation/argument?

[Protopriest Dionysi]

[quote="Peter J. Hatala"]

As far as your comment on Chesterton- I have to say, it seems pretty ridiculous. quote]

NOw, this is were the twisty road starts of miss information. I did not say that quotes of those outside the CHurch are of no value. Please re-read. What I did, was to use your comments on Moss (inwich you wanted to de-value or dismiss by showing that "his way of thinking put hiim outside of the Church") to show that his situation does not mean that his article is invalid. I used Chesterson as example to show that you yourself DO accept the works of them "outside" as being helpful. This is why I asked for you to look at the article (not author) and see what value it may contain.

As for the last portion of you post, well.....it started to seem a little......"ugly" if I may be so bold.

[Seraphim Reeves]

PS. My favorite stuff by Chesterton was from before he was Catholic, while he was an Anglican (e.g., Orthodoxy: The Romance of the Faith)

Chesterton is a spectrum - his thinking evolved, though I think in some core respects (perhaps it was just his temperament) remained pretty constant.

One of my favourite books in general (let alone my favourite work by Chesterton) was his Utopia of Usurers. Perhaps his most "prophetic" work.

Seraphim