Another (dumb) ROCOR question

[Julianna]

Juliana,

Heretics were always invited to councils.

First, that's untrue (and you couldn't defend it when pressed, unless you qualified "heretics" and "always" to the point that the terms became meaningless). And yes, I did ask for Fr. Dionysi's blessing.

I am sure the Aryans came to the council they were anathemized at, the monophysites to the council they were anathemized at, etc. The heretics come to the councils to be anathemized, but they come!

I'd expected to haftta explain what I'd meant but Lounger did it for me. Thanks!

[Julianna]

I agree with you about this. It is a shame. He has so much love and understanding. A great metropolitan. But, please let us not be too hard. He has repented. As you said, he saw that he was only serving Stalin's church.

Now, that you understand this, and realize that he was wrong for looking at the MP as a Church, I guess it is your chance to follow his lead.

:mrgreen:

[bogoliubtsy]

St. John of San Francisco considered the sacraments of the Moscow Patriarchate parishes in Russia to be grace-filled. I'll follow his lead for now.
As kind as Julianna is, I'm more of a St. John kind of guy.

[bogoliubtsy]

So,
I suppose Valentine of Suzdal's days as an MP priest are exempt from scrutiny?

No, I disagree with. But he did repent. He has repented to those he helped to mislead by thinking the MP was the, or part of, the Russian Church.

The bishops, the clergy and the laymen, subordinate to the jurisdiction of the Synod of Bishops Abroad, never broke canonical, prayer, or spiritual unity with their Mother Church.- Metr. Anastassy

Certainly sounds like ROCOR considered the MP part of the Russian Church.

[fserafim]

I would like to comment on Peter's posting. I too agree with St John that the MP parishes have grace. Let me explain.

I visited Russia again last September and was deeply moved by the piety of people and priests, I met no hierarchs. I felt the presence of grace at the Smolensk cemetery (Bl Xenia) and at St Sergius and again at St Makarij's monastery on the Volga. In fact I felt a very strong presence in this monastery (it was similar to that which I had previously experienced at the relics of St Silouan on Athos and in the Pokrov Convent in Sofia) but I did not know the reason for this. An old nun came up to me and asked if I had yet venerated their saint. I turned round and suddenly saw the relics of St Makary.

Now I am no lover of the MP, but there is evidence of grace and if you have ever visited the holy places of Russia you will know what I mean. I also served a molieben at the relics of St Alexander of Svir. His body remains at normal body temp and his incorrupt body exhales myrrh.

Yours in Christ,
Fr Serafim

[Protopriest Dionysi]

The bishops, the clergy and the laymen, subordinate to the jurisdiction of the Synod of Bishops Abroad, never broke canonical, prayer, or spiritual unity with their Mother Church.- Metr. Anastassy

Certainly sounds like ROCOR considered the MP part of the Russian Church.

The MP is the Moscow Patriarchate, not the Mother Patriarchate. The Mothr Church (the Church of Russia) is the Church in Russia that kept the faith, preserved the canons and the pledge that was handed unto them, unsoiled and without giving in to the God-less ones. This would be the catacomb Church. This would be the same CHruch that the New Martyrs are part of, not of those that helped to kill them.

[Protopriest Dionysi]

I visited Russia again last September and was deeply moved by the piety of people and priests, I met no hierarchs. I felt the presence of grace at the Smolensk cemetery (Bl Xenia) and at St Sergius and again at St Makarij's monastery on the Volga. In fact I felt a very strong presence in this monastery (it was similar to that which I had previously experienced at the relics of St Silouan on Athos and in the Pokrov Convent in Sofia) but I did not know the reason for this. An old nun came up to me and asked if I had yet venerated their saint. I turned round and suddenly saw the relics of St Makary.

Now I am no lover of the MP, but there is evidence of grace and if you have ever visited the holy places of Russia you will know what I mean. I also served a molieben at the relics of St Alexander of Svir. His body remains at normal body temp and his incorrupt body exhales myrrh.

Yours in Christ,
Fr Serafim

First, as important as feelings are, Orthodoxy is more than this. There are people who act very pious and feel as if they have a "right faith" in Mormomism, Protestantism ect..

Secondly, why do you assume it was the MP and those in the MP that gave you this "feeling" and not the holiness of God's righteous ones? Last year when I wan in Ivanovo, I too felt this type of "feeling" while venerating the relics of St. Basil of Kineshma. But, would you not say that this came from the saints and not those who killed or helped to kill them? If you were in the Holy Land, visiting the holy places, would you say the feeling of sanctity was do to Judaism of the holy ones and place themselves?

Priest Dionysi