Evolution and an Orthodox Patristic understanding of Genesis

Patristic theology, and traditional teachings of Orthodoxy from the Church fathers of apostolic times to the present. All forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.


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What do you believe vis a vis Creationism vs. Darwinism?

I believe in creationism like the Holy Fathers and Bible teach

20
83%

I believe in Darwin's Theory of Evolution and think the Church Fathers were wrong

2
8%

I am not sure yet, I need to read more Patristics and scientific theories

2
8%
 
Total votes: 24

Myrrh
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Post by Myrrh »

Myrrh wrote:

Metropolitan Anthony of Sourozh
The Whole Human Person: Body, Spirit and Soul

"...
At that moment it is one undivided being in two persons, because the Fall has not yet divided mankind from God and one human being from another. And it is only after the Fall that Adam and Eve look at one another and see themselves divided and different one from another." http://www.metropolit-anthony.orc.ru/eng/eng_09.htm

This is where I see Augustinian influence creeping in, to view this description of events in Gen II as 'the fall' as if they were in a perfect state before and imperfect after - they haven't fallen from anything because there was not a total separation from God - God continued taking care, clothing them, and interacting with them. It's a story of development, from God to us, from a single human being into male and female and from ignorance to knowledge. And this is division in perception as much as separation into male and female, the separation in seeing themselves other than each other and other than God in whose image they were first made the human person Adam. And of coming to understand their free will, of learning the difference between good and evil and consequences of their acts.

They didn't fall, they rose - they became "God like us" knowing good and evil, but in knowing this they tasted also evil in the fruit as well as good and this is what led to their eventual physical deaths, the consequence of sin is death ("if you would enter into life, keep the commandments" is eating of the fruit of eternal life). In Orthodox this is what is meant by "ancestral sin", by which the world became what it is and now as then we are capable of doing good and evil in a world affected by the acts and consequences of all the good and evil done in it.

Myrrh

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Pensees
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Post by Pensees »

God's perception of time is obviously much different from ours. Therefore, why would His creative work be limited to 144 hours, less than 10,000 years ago? If God created the species over a period of millions of years, how would that affect us as human beings?

Peace.

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Pensees
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Post by Pensees »

Myrrh wrote:

They didn't fall, they rose - they became "God like us" knowing good and evil

The serpent, who is Satan, promised that the forbidden fruit would make Adam and Eve godlike. This was one of his many deceptions.

Peace.

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jckstraw72
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Post by jckstraw72 »

Origen has heretical views concerning Genesis, such as the transmigration of souls. More theologically sound Fathers like St. John Chrysostom say it doesnt matter if there was a sun because there was light and dark and time either way. God did not create teh sun until the 4th day in order to demonstrate that the sun is not the god and origin of life.

and also as Deacon Nikolia said, the Church has a set year that it has used for centuries, thus the prevailing thought in the Church has always been a young earth, until Darwin came along. Last I checked Darwin was not a Church Father though, so Ill stick with Chyrsostom, the Cappadocians, Ephraim of Syria, etc etc.

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Pensees
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Post by Pensees »

jckstraw72 wrote:

Origen has heretical views concerning Genesis, such as the transmigration of souls.

Would you accuse all the church fathers I've provided you of being heretical? It's rather apparent that you need to take more time learning about this matter. God is not limited to our concept of time.

Peace.

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jckstraw72
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Post by jckstraw72 »

God is not limited to our concept of time.

God is outside time. But when speaking to Moses, whos understanding do you think He'll use---ours, or His which has no bounds of time anyways?

Who are the Scriptures for? Are they for God to understand, or for man to draw nearer to God?

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jckstraw72
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Post by jckstraw72 »

Would you accuse all the church fathers I've provided you of being heretical?

no, i said Origen is heretical bc of his transmigration of souls idea. since he somehow got that out of hte Genesis text, he's not exactly someone i'm going to look to to understand Genesis.

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