Letter of Abp. Seraphim of Chicago to Abp. Auxentios (1972)

Orthodox New England · Wed 4 October 2006 5:59 pm

What Theophan says is that many people think, although few ones dare to say.

Dear Father...then this is a truly sad reflection upon you. By calling a priest of the ROCOR (or any priest for that matter) one of "Lenin's useful idiots" does not lead others to believe that you are of a sobor and charitable mind.

You may disagree with Fr. John (and perhaps I disagree with things that he says), but to call him or think of him as a "useful idiot" is unChristian.

If you want to win people over to "your side", don't say stuff like that. It makes you look like the "idiot".

Gregory

GOCTheophan · Post by **GOCTheophan** » Wed 4 October 2006 6:15 pm

Orthodox New England wrote:
What is the story with Father John Shaw?

I know many people believe that he is KGB agent but I personally find that difficult to believe though he is certainly one of Lenin's useful idiots.

Are you serious? Is this really necessary?

Gregory

Okay I went to far.

However the fact remains that Fr John Shaw is an apolagist for both the Moscow and Serbian Patriarchates which are both heavily involved in the heresy of false Ecumenism, carry out attacks on the True Orthodox both "legal" and otherwise, large percentages of their higher clergy who were loyal servants of Marxist regiemes, etc.

And yes a lot of people do believe that he is a KGB-FSB agent.

Theophan.

GOCTheophan · Post by **GOCTheophan** » Wed 4 October 2006 6:30 pm

Orthodox New England wrote:
What Theophan says is that many people think, although few ones dare to say.

Dear Father...then this is a truly sad reflection upon you. By calling a priest of the ROCOR (or any priest for that matter) one of "Lenin's useful idiots" does not lead others to believe that you are of a sobor and charitable mind.

You may disagree with Fr. John (and perhaps I disagree with things that he says), but to call him or think of him as a "useful idiot" is unChristian.

If you want to win people over to "your side", don't say stuff like that. It makes you look like the "idiot".

Gregory

Gregory I was defending Father John Shaw aganist some one who seemed to be implying that he spreads deliberate misinformation
, I can understand why people think that way but I prefer not to especially in the absence of hard evidence.

The fact remains though that those who have set out to destory the Russian people and their Orthodox Church do not play by the rules of western polite society. This may sound overly dramatic to you but hands of the Sergianists drip with the blood of the Catacombniks and even those who geniunely sought after truth and righteousness within the MP itself.

Lenin's phrase about useful idiots who aid the revolution without necessarily going along with it's goals fits much of ROCOR under Met Lavr. Go to Russia and see the reality or even spend a year or so inside of an MP parish in the west.

Father John Shaw has written postively vile things about a Serbian Hieromonk who his friends in Offical Orthodoxy tried- thank God unsucessfully!- to murder. He has tried to undermine the reputation of St Philerat the confessor, protraying him as a man totally domainated by fear as opposed to Orthodoxy. I know two wrongs to not make a right but given that the True Orthodox Church of Russia has undergone such great suffering in the last century and given that Fr John is not beyond attacking quite crudely righteous Orthodox pastors I would hope that my remarks about him being one of Lenin's useful idiots are at least understandable if not defendable.

Theophan.

Priest Siluan · Post by **Priest Siluan** » Wed 4 October 2006 7:02 pm

Orthodox New England wrote:
What Theophan says is that many people think, although few ones dare to say.

Dear Father...then this is a truly sad reflection upon you. By calling a priest of the ROCOR (or any priest for that matter) one of "Lenin's useful idiots" does not lead others to believe that you are of a sobor and charitable mind.

You may disagree with Fr. John (and perhaps I disagree with things that he says), but to call him or think of him as a "useful idiot" is unChristian.

If you want to win people over to "your side", don't say stuff like that. It makes you look like the "idiot".

Gregory

Gregory, you put things on my mouth that I have not said. Look and you will see that you have said those things, not me. It is necessary to be careful with these things, because one could fall in a similar work of disinformation that many as Father J.R.Shaw like to carry out.

GOCTheophan wrote:
Go to Russia and see the reality or even spend a year or so inside of an MP parish in the west.

I think that this is a good advice ,although I also think that if the person persists there more than one year he/she will be in danger of a brain laundry that could take him/her to become in the KGB/FSB agent or in "useful idiot".

spiridon · Post by **spiridon** » Wed 4 October 2006 8:21 pm

Please forgive me for inserting the letter I received from a Priest in the Hocna, who reminded me a GOC Priest had put a letter on this cafe and that I should tell him, it was a bogus letter,and he inserted the letter from Fr.John Shaw and the link of many past discussions on this same subject- He, again I say " He never " told me to post the letter or anything but assuredly persuaded by the evil one I did, The hocna Priest did say I should maybe tell the GOC Priest that the letter wasnt correct...
I dont blame anybody but myself, for being so vulnerable,But i tell you all that from this day foward I will correct myself and practive patience as to not mis-guide anybody or post letters that I havent actually written or verified its legitimacy.
again forgive me.