Moderator: Mark Templet
The belief that heretics possess the Mysteries is Ecumenism. This is not judging individuals. It doesn't matter what you or I personally think about the matter. Heretics are outside of the Church.
No one should dare to judge the state of ANY individual's personal salvation. Orthodox Christians cannot, however, hold to the view that the mysteries of a parasynagogue are efficacious for that individual's salvation.
The problem is that not all people in the World Orthodox groups are heretics. There are many who are NOT ecumenists or New Calendarists. To these people there is a range of speculation--those who are clearly branch theorists are heretics and without grace but those who are innocent may still have grace. The question of their being in communion with heretics, however, renders their position suspect, although then again many are not aware they are in communion with heretics. This is why many of us reject the light-switch view of grace, namely that it shuts off at some definitive moment for everyone connected. I prefer the power grid: a station blows and if it is not fixed the others will suffer until they too blow gradually spreading, although interestingly enough sometimes within the blow grid there are still pockets of electricity due to a connection to one of the outside grids. Patriarch Bartholemew is obviously a branch theorist heretic but there are others for whom the distinction is not so easy to make. Cyprianism is wrong because it calls the New Calenadrists the mother church and says there are two parts of the Church, and the heretics have grace until judged by a council (also a light switch theory of grace, although the moment is different for them). Historically the Orthodox have recognized that grace departs gradually, leaving heretics instantly and spreading like a cancer to those still attached to them. That is why all New Calendarists or those in World Orthodox Churches must leave communion with their bishops and join the True Orthodox Church--there is no option--but to the innocent there is some speculation in a private sense--but nothing more than speculation.
Anastasios
Dear Anastasios,
When we refer to a certain "Church" as not having Grace we mean of course sacramental Grace, that the Holy Spirit does not descend on their altars and transform the bread and the wine for instance. God in His uncreated energies is everywhere and fills all things as we confess each morning and evening.
However either the Holy Spirit descends and preforms the Sacraments or He does not. There is no middle ground- either the bread on the Altar becomes the Body of Christ and the Wine His Blood or they do not. So there is a straight cut off point for sacramental Grace even if we humans cannot point to where exactly it is and until that point comes no matter "sick" how that Church gets it still contains within it the fullness of sacramental Grace.
Maybe I am not understanding you correctly but anything else but the "light switch theory" doesnt make any sense at all to me.
Theophan.
Theophan,
Just "1935", no month, day, hour, minute or second? 
At that moment that the switch went off for the new calendarists, where somewhere they were performing the Divine Liturgy and at that moment the Holy Spirit was descending to change the bread and wine to the Divine Mysteries, did the Holy Spirit, have to "cancel the plans" because some man uttered some words?
And if something happened in 1935 that we were responsible for, does that mean we could have avoided the schism by not doing whatever it was that we did?
And before 1935, were all of those people who left the State Church, where they schismatics?
The Church had long before that already debated and proclaimed that any change to the calendar would be an act of schism. What was so special about 1935 relative to this?
Just "1935", no month, day, hour, minute or second?
June 21, 1935.
At that moment that the switch went off for the new calendarists, where somewhere they were performing the Divine Liturgy and at that moment the Holy Spirit was descending to change the bread and wine to the Divine Mysteries, did the Holy Spirit, have to "cancel the plans" because some man uttered some words?
The Holy Spirit being God transcends time and space.
And if something happened in 1935 that we were responsible for, does that mean we could have avoided the schism by not doing whatever it was that we did?
No. The schismatics did not pull back from their schismatic renovation and therefore were justly anathemized. If I fall into fornication and my priest justly bars me from Communion for a time as a penance is he to blame for me not being able to recieve the Eucharist or am I?
And before 1935, were all of those people who left the State Church, where they schismatics?
Was St Theodore the studite being a schismatic when he broke Communion with St Nicephorus? Did that Holy Patriarch's Mysteries become automatically devoid of Grace after St Theodore broke with him?
Did the ROAC and everyone else who left ROCOR for reasons of the Faith before 2001 become schismatic? Do you believe that ROAC has Mysteriological Grace? Do you believe that ROCOR lost it in 1994- something which I believe that ROAC does not claim?
The Church had long before that already debated and proclaimed that any change to the calendar would be an act of schism. What was so special about 1935 relative to this?
Yes the New Calender was a schismatic act, and prolonged schism puts us outside of the Church. Was Eve thrown out of the garden immediately that after entering into dialogue with the serpent?
What was so special about 1935 was that after it made been made clear that the renovationists would not pull back from their destructive course they were justly cut off by a synod of Orthodox Bishops.
Theophan.
