GOA now tonsuring women as clergy?

[Kollyvas]

XPHCTOC BOCKPRECE!

Evlogeite Pater.
On Good Friday he put up seemingly Orthodox pictures of Good Friday services with some stream of consciousness incoherence not unlike Jim Morrison or Bergman and riddled it with quotes and illustrations from the works of Lewis Carrol!--he is one of the "nutters" in the OCA.
R
Then he had the audacity to lecture people who found his sacriledgious melange on Orthodoxy, spouting some silliness about New Skete and "Saint" Pavel Florensky! And to top it off, he had women loyal to him impersonate the ones taking issue and apologize! Talk about guru cultism. mr. haler-puhalo has a friend in the OCA.

http://seraphimsigrist.livejournal.com/403153.html
(He took down what I posted under anonymous as well as the lady impersonating me and apologizing. Kyrie Eleison! Between this one and haler-puhalo, the OCA in Canada is in DIRE need of all your prayers!)

[Chrysostomos]

Unfortunately for them, I, with the help of the Way Back Machine

Fr. Deacon Nicholas,

Having just celebrated Pascha, and completing the fast, could you explain your reason for reposting these pictures at this time. It wasn't in response to someone's recent call for a reposting.

I would be interested in hearing why you have done so at this time?

Who benefits from these posting but the sower of discord, OUR enemy.

The "altar server" issue was dealt with promptly once discovered. This is not taking place anymore. Don't know about the "tonsure" issue with the Greeks, since I am OCA.

Your fellow struggler in Christ,

Rd. Chrysostomos

[尼古拉前执事]

It wasn't in response to someone's recent call for a reposting.

Actually someone had asked me where the pictures of the tonsuring of the female GOA Reader and OCA altar girls since our forum search engine is not working right. Since I could not find the thread with the OCA altar girls, even though the image was on the server I posted it in response to another related post that they were asking for. It was asked after them seeing the ACROD jurisdiction of the EP having Uniate bishops concelebrate with them and adding post-schism Uniate saints to their calendar.

Generally I do not bump up a thread unless I get a request either publicly or privately for such thread.

[ioannis]

And here is the voice of the womans lib movement supporting their altar girls and even hoping for woman priests.

http://www.stnina.org/journal/onl/feat/AltarServers

More and more it seems, the "World Orthodox" are held together by the administration, despite their many and growing differences in faith. This is definatley based on the Latin model.

I don't particularly care for this persons work, but Frederica Mathewes-Green is decribing new-calendarists when she wrote about the unity of the Latins:

From a Roman Catholic perspective, unity is created by the institution of the church. Within that unity there can be diversity; not everyone agrees with official teaching, some very loudly. What holds things together is membership. This kind of unity makes immediate sense to Americans: Whatever their disagreements, everyone salutes the flag, and all Catholics salute, if not technically obey, Rome's magisterium.

When Roman Catholics look at Orthodoxy, they don't see a centralized, global institution. Instead, the church appears to be a jumble of national and ethnic bodies (a situation even more confused in the U.S. as a result of immigration). To Catholics, the Orthodox Church looks like chaos.

But from an Orthodox perspective, unity is created by believing the same things. It's like the unity among vegetarians or Red Sox fans. You don't need a big bureaucracy to keep them faithful. Across wildly diverse cultures, Orthodox Christians show remarkable unity in their faith. (Of course there are plenty of power struggles and plain old sin, but the essential faith isn't challenged.) What's the source of this common faith? The consensus of the early church, which the Orthodox stubbornly keep following. That consensus was forged with many a bang and dent, but for the past millennium major questions of faith and morals have been pretty much at rest in the Eastern hemisphere.

This has not been the case in the West. An expanded role for the pope was followed by other theological developments, even regarding how salvation is achieved. In the American church, there is widespread upheaval. From the Orthodox perspective, the Catholic Church looks like chaos.

This is hard for Catholics to understand; for them, the institution of the church is the main thing. If the church would enforce its teachings, some adherents say, there would be unity. The Orthodox respond: But faith must be organic. If you have to force people to it, you've already lost the battle; that wouldn't be unity at all.

More and more, isn't this Latin model of unity the model being used by ecumenists and their followers: Disagree with them, "fight from within" if you must, but the Church is defined by administrative unity and not the faith! So basically then, we can add one more innovation to the long list, thier definition of unity.

[Chrysostomos]

Actually someone had asked me where the pictures of the tonsuring of the female GOA Reader and OCA altar girls since our forum search engine is not working right. Since I could not find the thread with the OCA altar girls, even though the image was on the server I posted it in response to another related post that they were asking for. It was asked after them seeing the ACROD jurisdiction of the EP having Uniate bishops concelebrate with them and adding post-schism Uniate saints to their calendar.

A private email to them would have accomplished the same task.

Instead, the church appears to be a jumble of national and ethnic bodies (a situation even more confused in the U.S. as a result of immigration). To Catholics, the Orthodox Church looks like chaos.

ioannis,

Good to see you back on the board! Christ is Risen!!!!

As to the above quote, I don't disagree with that statement. I can understand why people see that, because that is a reality. We as Orthodox Christians in America, do seem to be a jumble of national and ethnic bodies.

It is interesting that we see this in America. As far as my understanding goes, having never been to Greece, but having inquired about it.... There are not Antiochian, OCA, Jerusalem Patriarchate, Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian, parishes in Greece, ministering in their respective tongues to those of their respective nationality. Nor could it be said of Russia. With the exception of one OCA church that I understand is in Russia.

I think we are our "own" worst enemy in trying to spread to gospel of Christ in America. We have a tendency to want to minister to the "immigrants", and not to America as a whole. As to the OCA, I think that we reach out to only "Christians", and not to the mass of the unchurch. Thus, we have alot of converts, but few out and out pagans, who's first exposure to Christianity is Eastern Orthodoxy.

Disagree with them, "fight from within" if you must, but the Church is defined by administrative unity and not the faith!

I would agree with this statement, but it applies to Traditional as well as World Orthodox.

I guess what I realize, is that we quote the Church Fathers, Canons, etc., of which much of the quotes, etc, were done before 1054.

We have a greater "cross" to bear, than our forefathers, due to the rampant denominationalism that has spread due to Protestant growth and division. NO telling how the Church Fathers, etc., would respond to this situation that "WE" Eastern Orthodox (Traditional and World) face today.

Surely, we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, and I am confident that they are interceding on our behalf that we will hold on and continue to manifest Christ in our lives to the world so that it can be redeemed and restored.

Your fellow struggler in Christ,

Rd. Chrysostomos

[尼古拉前执事]

:bump:

[joasia]

George,

I do not want to blaspheme. Yes, I see what you are saying. The Grace of the Holy Spirit is either present or is not, despite the personal state of the one serving Holy Communion. I do not want to judge where He is and I have no right to even discuss anything about the Holy Spirit.

I still feel it necessary to wall myself off from the EP and MP. When do we know when the Holy Spirit has withdrawn from the Church of Constantinople? Patriarch Bartholowmew allows con-celebrations with papists. He is openly showing his acceptance of union with them; they are already concelebrating with those who do not "worship the same God" that we do.

I know of a priest who allows a papist priest con-celebrate in the Holy Altar with him, on Pascha. He says that it is a time of great joy and that it's an act of brotherly love. So when is the line drawn and who has the authority to draw it?

This is the reason why I wonder about the presence of Grace with the EP. The MP is another story.

Joanna