Moderator: Mark Templet
I would just like to say having read what I wrote above, I do not feel I am strong enough in my positions, I am too ambigous and I think out loud too much. I think I do more damage than good to everyone and I apologize. I think I should stop posting about this. If I caused anyone confusion please forgive me.
Anastasios
I would just like to say having read what I wrote above, I do not feel I am strong enough in my positions, I am too ambigous and I think out loud too much. I think I do more damage than good to everyone and I apologize. I think I should stop posting about this. If I caused anyone confusion please forgive me.
I would have wrote that just the same way, very well put.
I feel like you do though, many times I feel like I am doing more harm than good too, which is why I don't write as much. Another reason I don't write as much is because I can have the ecclesiology right, but not doing something with it, I indeed make myself like the Pharisees. All talk no action.
I think I will stop talking, I'm not good at it anyway. Hopefully Peter can see past my own failings in what I wrote.
ioannis wrote:I think I will stop talking, I'm not good at it anyway. Hopefully Peter can see past my own failings in what I wrote.
I'm not the best talker/debater out there either...obviously. Also, I know much more about Russian history and tradition than Greek, so sometimes I find it difficult to speak on "old calendarist" matters which are in many ways an entirely Greek issue. What I'm sure of is the fact that if we all sat down together and had some tea/coffee/a few beers/your favorite beverage, we'd all arive somewhere close to the same position, and certainly all believe in Christ's commandments to love each other. I truly believe that. So, despite all of our personal positions and shortcomings, I truly wish you (Ioannis and Anastasios) the best, and hope that someday soon all of these questions are resolved and make better sense. At this point, and since these debates have really been exhausted, all we can really do is agree to disagree and start acting like Christians toward one another...starting with my sinful self first. I'm sorry Ioannis and Anastasios for any offense I may have caused. Whether we agree or not, un-Christian/un-civilized behavior should never be an option.
Wow it was wonderful to see both of you put Orthodox first and basically bow down and walk away from a heated debate, I to must say; please forgive me if I had anything to say that caused scandal, confusion,misguidance,or resentment, none was intended but being an 8th grade dropout and left for the streets to devour me up, I sometimes have only one TONE that I speak and write in, and that is DEFENSE Mode, God forgive me a wretched sinner and those who I offend not by my intelligence,but by my stupidity and wretchedness...Oh yeah count me in on this get together, will join you guys for those drinks to discuss and agree on the Commandments and Christs Teachings ,except i will have STARBUCKs instead...
First, and Last, and Always
in CHRIST
ROCOR(A) IS FORMED IN MANSONVILLE
(Portal-Credo.Ru – Official web-site of ROCOR(A) – Vertograd, Mansonville)
June 23, Archbishop Anthony (Orloff) issued an Ukaz where he says that “he counts this his duty to take the temporary ruling of the ROCOR” because of the poor condition of Met Vitaly “who is not able sometimes even to recognize his Deputy and bishops”, because of the “inconsistent and false Ukazes canceling the previous Ukazes signed by the First Hierarch” and because of the “malicious isolation of First-Hierarch”.
This Ukaz marks the beginning of new church ROCOR(A). Archbishop Anthony and bishop Victor (Pivovarov) of Kuban will probably ordain two more bishops soon: Archimandrite Damascene (Balabanov) and Archimandrite Stefan (Babaev).
The ordination of these two candidates was supposed to be discussed on the Sobor of ROCOR(V) organized by Archbishop Anthony and Bishop Victor, but blocked by their opponents.
The day before, on June 22, Metropolitan Vitaly and Archbishop Antony were invited to the local police station so that Metropolitan, officially, without any outside influence, could express his will regarding the presence in the residence of the First Hierarch in Mansonville of Archbishop Antony and his supporters. To the question of the police officer, "does Metr. Vitaly wish that Orloff, Pivovarov, Balabanov, Babaev, and Mitze leave the territory of the Transfiguration Skete?" Metropolitan Vitaly firmly replied, "Yes, I wish it." Having heard the answer of Metropolitan Vitaly, Archb. Antony (Orloff) made an attempt to persuade the Metropolitan to change his decision, but was stopped by the police officer with the words: "Enough. The answer has been received." After the filling out of the necessary forms, Metropolitan Vitaly returned to his residence.
The Russian group (Bishop Victor of Kuban and Archimandrites Damascene and Stephan) were asked by the police to leave Mansonville before July 25.
