ROCiE

Discussion about the various True Orthodox Churches around the world including current events. Subforums in other langauges, primarily English on the main forum.


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pjhatala
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Post by pjhatala »

Priest Siluan wrote:
pjhatala wrote:

Your Metropolitan was an MP priest for 30 years. Only he is capable of a changing his position, I suppose.

Funny how the MP started being "heretical" for Valentine after the fall of communism. Hmm...

Here there is a popular said that it says "it is never too late for be repented"

St Mary of Egypt was a sinner, however, she repented.

I agree...I hope one day your hierarchs, along with ROCiE, HOCNA, the GOC, etc. will all repent and return to the Orthodox Church.

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ioannis
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Post by ioannis »

Ioannis, the "pope" of the e-cafe, who has, in the virtual world, been deciding where grace resides for the past three years is telling me not to judge. The man who has used the most vile language to describe hiearchs of the Orthodox Church past and present, while at the same time pretending to know their hearts is telling others not to judge.

Reading your bishops confession of faith in the Balamand document, for instance, is not judging another mans heart, it is simply stating the faith they have themselves declared and intended to be known.

Now if I said they signed the document because they had ill intentions and desires, that would be judging their hearts. If I have ever done something like the latter you would be a great friend to point this out to me so I can repent.

As for knowing where Grace is, I believe I have only repeated what the Holy Fathers have repeated regarding such heresies as Balamand (to use the same small example). I even recall saying several times that these definitions are likley very "strict" in order to protect the flock, and that it might be possible Mysteriological Grace is in places we do not know - only Christ knows for sure. The only job of the flock is to follow and repeat what has been passed down to us, specifically about true and false bishops.

Now looking over at your side of the cliff, it seems to me it has been your bishops who have declared where Mysteriological Grace is and isn't without any regard, and really in spite of, the Orthodox faith and the Holy Fathers. For them, it is with the Lutherans, Monophysites, and Roman Catholics, and it is not with us. But it is not this that upsets you?

As with most people I have encountered in the ecumenist churches, it really doesn't seem to matter that "infallible declarations" of "where Grace is" are made, since your bishops do the same, it is just when the Orthodox say something traditional on the subject that it bothers you. Is this correct? I would like to hear more on your thoughts regarding this.

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Priest Siluan
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Post by Priest Siluan »

pjhatala wrote:

I agree...I hope one day your hierarchs, along with ROCiE, HOCNA, the GOC, etc. will all repent and return to the Orthodox Church.

What Church? is you speaking about those that sympathize with the WCC, Roman Catholics and Protestants?. Then it is would not be to be repent but falling in iniquity, lie and heresy.

Anastasios
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Post by Anastasios »

pjhatala wrote:

I agree...I hope one day your hierarchs, along with ROCiE, HOCNA, the GOC, etc. will all repent and return to the Orthodox Church.

You must be joking to include the GOC with ROCiE and HOCNA, as if they are on the same par. And you must be kidding to suggest that the GOC, headed by His Emminence Metropolitan Pavlos in America, and by Archbishop Chrysostomos II in Greece, is not in the Church. You might want to ask your ROCOR hiearch Bishop Gabriel if his good friend Metropolitan Pavlos is in the Church. Well, you don't really need to ask since it's obvious what ROCOR thinks, given that Met Pavlos and Bp Christodoulos were in the altar at the elevation of Metropolitan Laurus in 2001. I realize you are just upset at Ioannis but try not to let it cloud your judgment.

Now, having addressed your end of the spectrum, let me address the other in a subsequent post after lunch.

Anastasios

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Post by Anastasios »

That being said, I can't support the grossly uncanonical status of ROCiE. Resistance to ecumenism is being used as an excuse here for some rather unsavory characters to abuse an old man who changes his mind often. Secret ordinations and depositions, accepting and then rejecting clergy, ordaining a married man in one's cell to be bishop, etc etc etc. This is ludicrous and makes anti-ecumenists look stupid and foolish, and all the while with no flock. We in the GOC have had our problems (although our Synod has been experiencing a long period of peace) but it has never been on this level of anticanonical violation (and we actually have many real churches with real people!) Fr Alexander, while wrong on the MP union, is right about ROCiE, although his appeal for them to rejoin ROCOR is not something I agree with obviously, preferring they join us, of course--and I do not believe their bishops should be accepted in their orders. Perhaps the ROCiE members will see me as arrogant but so be it, I believe their jurisdiction has done the Old Calendar movement great harm.

Anastasios

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pjhatala
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Post by pjhatala »

anastasios wrote:
pjhatala wrote:

I agree...I hope one day your hierarchs, along with ROCiE, HOCNA, the GOC, etc. will all repent and return to the Orthodox Church.

You must be joking to include the GOC with ROCiE and HOCNA, as if they are on the same par. And you must be kidding to suggest that the GOC, headed by His Emminence Metropolitan Pavlos in America, and by Archbishop Chrysostomos II in Greece, is not in the Church. You might want to ask your ROCOR hiearch Bishop Gabriel if his good friend Metropolitan Pavlos is in the Church. Well, you don't really need to ask since it's obvious what ROCOR thinks, given that Met Pavlos and Bp Christodoulos were in the altar at the elevation of Metropolitan Laurus in 2001. I realize you are just upset at Ioannis but try not to let it cloud your judgment.

Now, having addressed your end of the spectrum, let me address the other in a subsequent post after lunch.

Anastasios

I meant those other Genuine Orthodox Christians, of course. :wink:
In all seriousness though, and we've spoken about this, I can not come to terms with some of the GOCs encyclicals coming out of Greece. Their tone seems to almost mirror the tone of someone like OOD(Ioannis) and seem to share basically the same ecclesiology. At the same time there seem to be other elements of the GOC in America which are quite different- i.e. rational, sane, not denying the absense of Grace in the "official" Orthodox Church. There seems to be a wide gulf in tenor and practice here. So which one is it?

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Jean-Serge
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Post by Jean-Serge »

anastasios wrote:

Secret ordinations and depositions, accepting and then rejecting clergy, ordaining a married man in one's cell to be bishop, etc etc etc. This is ludicrous and makes anti-ecumenists look stupid and foolish, and all the while with no flock. Anastasios

Which married man? A married man can become monk and bishop if the couple decides boths to become monastics!

Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.

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