old, old pictures of Patriarch Alexey II

[ICONOPHILI]

Yes, but not under the Patriarchate but in America in the self-governing Antiochian Church (autonomous).

You certainly may have good issues with the MP - I honestly don't know, but condemning them for married Bishops is certainly not one of them because:

1. The ancient Canon permits this.

2. Holy Tradition is filled with married Bishops - St. Gregory Nanzianzen the Elder is a Saint, a Bishop and the biological father of St. Gregory the Theologian! [Also, St. Gregory the Elder was a heretic for awhile, but he repented. Shouldn't we therefore forgive?]

3. Holy Scripture - the Holy Gospel, refers to the most famous St. Peter who was indeed married. Jesus chose at least one married man!

4. Holy Scripture in Timothy and Titus written by St. Paul explicitly states the qualifications for Bishop, and being married with one wife is part of that specification.

It is one thing to call attention to what people do wrong, and another to condemn them for what the Church has always taught as One Holy Catholic and Apostolic. If you condemn people for following ancient Holy Tradition, could it be you are condemning for other reasons that are not correct?

Jesus Christ is Lord - and we are all sinners. Let us forgive and love one another as Christ taught, and put away false teachings!

andy holland
sinner

Actually your wrong, I think it was The 4th Ecumenical Council or maybe it was the 5th but in one of them, it was "Canonicaly" MADE A RULE THAT ALL Bishops would have to be chosen from, the Monastical Community, not Laymen, or Lay Priests, the reason nowadays thier breaking that RULE , to dumb down the Clergy/ Laymen to forget TRADTION, so latter on the can bring in thier CURSED "ONE WORLD RELIOGON-GOVERNMET.

[AndyHolland]

Iconophilli - that is not the truth.

Local synods, such as the latins had in the 4th century, had the authority to make such canon but it clearly did not apply to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and clearly does not have Universal Jursidiction. For example, in the 4th Century the Latins made it a requirement that even Priests, deacons and even sub-deacons (all on the Altar) had to be unmarried! And they were still part of the Church and in full communion with the Orthodox - they were Orthodox at the time!

You cannot condemn people for practicing Holy Tradition - and Holy Tradition includes married Bishops. St. Peter, St. Gregory the Elder - etc....

In fact, the reason people are so vehement about Patriarch Alexy II has more to do with the fact that in a certain sense, they are being called to love him and forgive him - yet find that reality repulsive - desiring to hold onto hate, wrath and anger over the senseless murder of so many beloved Christians by Soviet madmen and KGB.

So stubbornly hanging onto hatred, people go to all sorts of extremes to viciously attack him. Patriarch Alexy II is looking more Christian all the time - like the younger brother who having dwelt with KGB swine, is coming home to the Father, and whose older brother hates and despises him.

You can hold onto hate, or let it go - and with it all falsehood. And in letting go of the hatred, you can call out to your brother Alexy II and help him find the Father.

For you are lost too if you hold onto this wrath.

andy holland
sinner

[Priest Siluan]

I am not attacking Alexey II because he has been married (neither in anyway) but I am surprised the whole matter because he has married later in the Bright Week and ordered few days later, and I agree you that there were married bishops in the old Church but then no longer.... the tradition now is other and this we should continue, but you seem to follow another tradition (and quite recent and modern) that of Meletios Metaxakis and Afthimios Ofiesh.

BTW you neither demonstrate a lot of Christian love toward us. One should always begin first in own home.

Priest Siluan

[Priest Siluan]

Some modernist movements in Rumania also try to impose married bishops mainly in the diaspora, it doesn't have seen good and it is combatted by any traditionalist or conservative.

These same modernists have other non good ideas as the one of celebrating the Liturgy with Latin Host... In definitive, at the present time, whenever it sopport the idea of married bishops it is not for a traditional intention but for a modernist one.

Since the tradition of the Church for already many centuries (many more than when you accepts the other thing) is that the Bishops are monks. just as Iconophili said.

In Christ

Priest Siluan

[AndyHolland]

Holy Tradition I am advocating - nothing less - nothing more. When you show a wedding photograph to imply scandal, who are you scandalizing?

As for marriage during bright week - I don't recall that being part of the canon nor is it a requirement, a law, a statute or ordinance. It is part of Holy Tradition for those who can bear it.

As for what Romanians do, I have no knowledge. Nor do I know of others of whom you speak.

If you wish to convict me, use my own words. I certainly have supplied enough of them to expose all my rotten sins and failures in love.

To say I am advocating revisionism and modernism is not of the truth.
Would you accuse Christ himself of modernism by choosing St. Peter?Would you accuse St. Gregory the Elder of Revisionism by begetting St. Gregory the Theologian? The examples provided I provided to defend the Holy Tradition of Married Bishops. Of these other issues, I am completely and happily ignorant - nor are they relevant.

I sincerely hope for all of our full conversion to the Truth Faith in Christ Jesus the Lord. That includes not only Alexy II, but also the Pope, even the heretics (as St. Gregory the Elder was once a heretic), and the schismatics and even the Muslims - for I am to bless my enemies!

andy holland
sinner

[Priest Siluan]

Further, there is a tradition of love that says we should not condemn others for doing good - and marriage is good. As for marriage in bright week, I honestly don't know.

andy holland
sinner

Of course, the marriage is good nobody is denying that. I am a married priest.

On the other hand, you explain me if the current tradition is as you say why there are not any bishops married corruntly or Have you that in your Church?.

[AndyHolland]

Further, there is a tradition of love that says we should not condemn others for doing good - and marriage is good. As for marriage in bright week, I honestly don't know.

andy holland
sinner

Of course, the marriage is good nobody is denying that. I am a married priest.

On the other hand, you explain me if the current tradition is as you say why there are not any bishops married corruntly or Have you that in your Church?.

Practice has varied based on location, time and circumstance.

It is my understanding from researching this, monastics generally proved preferable for Bishops - and so the tradition evolved that we have monastic Bishops.

It is also my understanding from history, local synods have changed practices for various reasons.

If the MP changed the practice, even for the wrong reason - though they may have thousands of other things wrong with them - that particular thing (married Bishop) was not in of itself an error, a heresy, nor even a break with Tradition because they have recourse to the entire Church history as a defense.

Honestly, it seems that people are inventing reasons for schism rather than addressing serious issues seriously, and discussing them with even Alexy II himself.

You might find he is not a heretic but someone who like us is a sinner looking for salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord.

andy holland
sinner

ps. we do not have married bishops. We may have a widower.