SPLIT: Is Hate (of Jews and Heretics) a Trait of Orthodoxy?

[Liudmilla]

Ioannis and others...

It is easy enough to say "I hate the sin, but love the sinner", however the reality is far from this statement. As flawed humans it is hard for us to separate the emotive from the dispassionate. We cannot help but turn that hate of the sin onto the sinner. We end up blaming the sinner for the sin and in a vicious cycle simply fall into the sin of hate. Far better for our souls would be for us to avoid hate in any shape or form. For is not Love of God and from God greater than any form of Hate?

Milla

[ioannis]

Milla,

I loathe and hate Roman Catholicism (really) as a distortion of God. At the same time, one of my best friends is a church-going Roman Catholic.

Loving people is to love the works and creation and image of Christ Himself. To hate sin, is to hate the corruption we bring upon ourselves to that image. It is easy and nessesary to separate the two.

And I would strongly contend that it is impossible to TRULY repent unless we TRULY hate the sin we committed.

This is why St. Maximos the Confessor says that the memory of death helps him to hate sin.

St. Nicodemos worked very hard to make man aware of the essence of sin and its devastating power, since it jeopardizes our very salvation, depriving him of Gods Grace and, thereby, of the capacity for adoption into Divine sonship. He implores people to "hate and loathe sin".

St. Gregory of Nyssa says that this kind of hate is a Divine hate.

[Liudmilla]

Ioannis:
I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I don't think that mankind is capable or qualified ...if will...to make such a discernment. We have not reached the perfection attained by many saints and we are too flawed to separate the hate of the sin from the hate of the sinner. We mouth the words but we in fact are not loving the sinner because we cannot help but attach the hate of the sin to the doer of the sin. Our low spritual state does not allow us to do so. Since we are incapable of this separation we are in fact unqualified to say I hate the sin, but love the sinner. That's why I say it is better to concentrate first on learning to love without qualification, without reservation, unconditionally and then and only then saying that we hate the sin and love the sinner.

Milla

[AndyHolland]

Milla,

That is a very good point you are making. It is very hard to separate the human being from our deeds.

In Holy Scripture however, we have examples such as:

"Yet this you have, you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate."*

and in Proverbs: 'There are six things which the Lord hates, seven which are an abomination to Him:

1. Haughty eyes,
2. A lying tongue,
3. Hands that shed innocent blood,
4. A heart that devises wicked plans,
5. Feet that make haste to run to evil,
6. A false witness who breathes out lies, and
7. A man who sows discord among brothers.'[/i]

so there seems to be a legitimate biblical basis for saying we should hate the sin and not the sinner.

andy holland
sinner

*According to St. Irenaeus: "The Nicolaitanes are the followers of that Nicolas who was one of the seven first ordained to the diaconate by the apostles. They lead lives of unrestrained indulgence. The character of these men is very plainly pointed out in the Apocalypse of John, as teaching that it is a matter of indifference to practice adultery, and to eat things sacrificed to idols. Wherefore the Word has also spoken of them thus: "But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate." [Against Heresies, Ch. XXVI]

[ioannis]

Milla,

If that's the way you deal with it best personally then I am not here to interfere.

Perhaps your method then is to love the sinner and oppose the sin?

[Liudmilla]

Ioannis:

I think a closer rendering would be.....

Love the sinner and discourage the sin...........

Milla

[AndyHolland]

Why is my name as author of this topic? While I chimed in, I don't like my name being associated with its authorship.

andy holland
embarrassed sinner