http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox- ... sage/72298
--- In orthodox-tradition@yahoogroups.com, "machristodoulou"
<machristodoulou@y...> wrote:
David, I have seen your shrine to Lev Puhalo on the net.
None of Fr. Ephraim's children make shrines to him on the net.
Perhaps your following of PUHALO-ITES are the real ones that are
twisted and perverse, the way you erroneously accuse others of
being.
Aha. This is very true. I believe that OCA-Archbishop Lazar Puhalo
(I am using his full title for list guidelines, see?) is what I call
an "intellectual cult" leader. Operating on the spiritual pride of
his followers, they preach a revised gospel, a revised reading of the
Fathers... the followers believe that they are in fact more
intelligent than more than the Orthodox Church they are surrounded by,
but the Orthodox Church of 2,000 years....
They are renovationist heretics, just as heretical as the people
screaming for ecumenical dialogue. The only difference is that they
yell incessantly that "THIS IS" the Orthodox teaching-- which is
perhaps even worse, because in fact, it is not.
The truly sad thing is that you call
yourself "Traditional Orthodox," but my poor misguided friend, you
are nothing more than a Modern day Martin Luther, looking for a way
to create a church where you can pick and choose which teachings and
which fathers you want to listen to.
Truer words spoken not, and not simply for the followers of OAp-Lazar,
but all who believe that the Church's teaching is up for revision....
Joe Suaiden
http://www.livejournal.com/users/suaiden
NFTU coming back soon
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox- ... sage/72288
David- Very clever and political tactic. You completely ignored the
revised statement/clarification I made to Natalie in TWO successive
posts, picked ONE statement, took it out of context and turned it
into a snark fest. You would have had a great career in Politics.
Howard Dean may need a replacement soon, so maybe you should call
him and see if he is interested. It sounds as if he won't need to
groom you too much. As for your everyone having "freedom of choice"
statement, if that was in ANY way an underhanded statement that was
pro-abortion in nature then I feel sorry for you on the day of
judgment when the blood of many millions of unborn children will be
against any defense you may have. As for the priest who said the
unborn will go to hell because they are not baptized, they are
baptized by their own blood, innocent murder, by the New Herod,
ABORTION. David, I have seen your shrine to Lev Puhalo on the net.
None of Fr. Ephraim's children make shrines to him on the net.
Perhaps your following of PUHALO-ITES are the real ones that are
twisted and perverse, the way you erroneously accuse others of
being. If you had demonstrated any semblance of logic, it might be
worthwile to continue to discuss these points with you, but since
there is none that I can see, rest assured, I will not read any
more of your posts because I really already know all I need to know
about you. The truly sad thing is that you call
yourself "Traditional Orthodox," but my poor misguided friend, you
are nothing more than a Modern day Martin Luther, looking for a way
to create a church where you can pick and choose which teachings and
which fathers you want to listen to. May God grant you
enlightenment.
Maria A Christodoulou
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/orthodox- ... sage/72261
(Author's note - yep me, Maria, I am the author. Sorry if that
offends you David, I was going to call it Maria's exigesis, but I
knew you would probably have a heart attack if I said that...)
The words below are taken directly from Mr. Puhalo....
HE SAYS: "Marriage is "dirty"? Men tell me that they went to a
Father Ephraim monastery expecting to hear about the love and
compassion of Jesus Christ, but instead heard that marriage
is "dirty."
MARIA SAYS: First of all, what men? Where are they? Can they not
speak for themselves, only through you? Which monastery did they go
to? Who did they speak to? What words were used? How was this
discussion on marriage started? I've been to at least 80% of the
monasteries and NEVER have I heard the monks or nuns come out and
talk with lay people about MARRIAGE. I'd really love to meet
these "men" who tell you of these things
HE SAYS: It might be meaningful to know exactly what the Ephraimites
are teaching about normal heterosexual relationships in marriage. By
every report I have received, they are claiming that sexual
relations within marriage is sinful and dirty and that even a newly
wed couple should sleep in separate bedrooms--unless they are
planning to procreate. Also, that even under such an arrangement a
married couple must be careful not to take any pleasure in their
sexual encounter.
MARIA SAYS: Whoa, whoa, let's ease up on the name calling, pal! And
you are right, it is meaningful to know what these alleged teachings
are and where they come from. What exactly is an "Ephraimite"
anyway. I have never heard anyone who visits these monasteries call
themselves that. I spoke to the Elder shortly before I got
married. He never advised my husband and I to sleep in separate
bedrooms. In fact he didn't say anything at all about my bedroom,
my bed or anything of the such. He has known me since I was a young
girl and I believe his words to me were something along the lines
of, "Maria, my prayers will be with you and your husband that you
will always seek to do His will in all things." Whoa, that's pretty
inappropriate...NOT! Also, he has never said ANYTHING at all about
not deriving pleasure from sex (pro or con, it is not a topic of
conversation! WHY would he ask such a thing? Who are the sickos
who think he does?)
HE SAYS: We also know of at least one Geronda who insists that
husbands telephone him and ask for a blessing to have sexual
relations with their wives. I understand that Father Ephraim insists
that a married couple must abstain from Holy Communion for a forty-
day "purification" period after they have had sexual relations.
MARIA SAYS: Who is this Geronta? If you know of him, you know his
name so who is it? Give the man a chance to defend himself against
your repeated baseless and slanderous accusations. I know all the
Gerontas personally. I also know they all are entrusted with the
spiritual guidance of anywhere from 10-30 monks. After all their
prayers, after the daily confessions of all the monks in the
brotherhood, you think they REALLY have time to receive phone calls
to grant permission for lay people to have sex? Do you realize how
illogical and downright ridiculous this sounds? IF you REALLY truly
believe that a Geronta with a whole synodia to be concerned with has
the time or desire to do such a thing then I really, truly pity
you. As for this "purification" period you speak of, in the ten
years I have been married and confessing to Geronta, he has NEVER
EVER told me anything anywhere near that. So I would really LOVE To
meet the person who said these words came from Geronta's mouth,
because whatever that person is smoking, I may need some of it...
HE SAYS: Marriage is difficult enough to sustain in our current
times without such condemnation of heterosexuality and lawful
relations within marriage. This matter is of great concern to us.
MARIA SAYS: Yep, it is difficult. Bottom line, Mr. Puhalo, if you
are so concerned with Elder Ephraim's teachings, why don't you go
see him and ask him about them? Because everything you have written
on this paper is nothing more than an attempt to put words into the
mouth of a man. Please, for goodness sake, find out for yourself
rather than launch an all out slaughter on a person based on
malicious hearsay and gossip! Oh and have a lovely day
!