Tactics and Testimonies

[尼古拉前执事]

It looks like this has turned in to an unfortunate situation, where we once again need to remind people of some of the rules of the forum that are listed in the FAQs

Forum Netiquette

1. Can I attack or make fun of another member?

NO! If you do, you will be banned. This is unChristian behaviour and it will NOT be tolerated.

1. What about saints or clergy?

You may only speak of facts and may not slander them. (i.e. it would be okay to say Sergius was guilty of the heresy of Sergianism, but you could not say he was a pedophile unless you had proof of the accusation)

1. Must I address the clerics that post here by their proper titles?

Yes. Monks, deacons and priests of every rank should be addressed as Father n. and Bishops as Vladyka n. or Despota n. where n. is their Christian name. (Please do not use nicknames like Father Ted or Despota Chris!) Nuns are traditionally addresses as Mother n.. Monastic novices are called Brother n. or Sister n.. If you have severe reservations in doing this, then at the very least you must call them by their title (i.e. Schemamonk n., Archdeacon n., Protopresbyter n., Metropolitan n., etc.) Traditionally, readers and subdeacons have only called by their titles when they receive the Mysteries and as such may be called by their Baptismal name alone.

[joasia]

Fr. Nikolai,

Forgive me. I stepped over the line...again.

Myrr,

I'm sorry. I got carried away, in my own thoughts. But, I don't know you, so I don't know your motives for the post. If you were my friend, Maria, then I'd understand where the post was coming from, but in this case, I'm looking at something that sounds like Vitaly propaganda. And Maria knew Vladika very well. He came to her house on a few occasions. He even brought the Kursk icon. He always insisted on buying her chocolates and he walked around Park Ex(Podvore is in Park Ex), dressed like a simple monk. He'd go into the Greek bakery shops and buy sweets and the people there would treat him like a regular monk. It shocked Maria, because she saw that he didn't care to be treated with grandeur. She told me that she kept thinking that he is a Metropolitan and they had no idea. She wanted to say...don't you realize who you are talking to?? But, he would stop her. He'd tell her: it's okay. Don't worry about it. And she'd say: but, Vladika, they can't treat you that way. And he'd say: it's okay.

But, she is also very upset with what he did and what Ludimilla got away with and what she is getting away with now.

Sorry Fr. Nikolai, but Ludmilla does not fall under any of the points you mentioned. So I will say that Ludmilla is a sickness that has caused many of these problems. I'm talking about Ludmilla who is controlling Vladika and not the Ludmilla that is posting here.

Anyways, forgive me for my ramblings. I hope I have not offended anyone.

Joanna

[Myrrh]

If there is anyone on the attack it is the person who started this thread and who has failed to answer my questions.

I thought I was answering them, but perhaps you mean direct response to every comment or question? OK, I'll try.

It happened too long ago and thosee involved were punished. Bishop Michael was imprisoned in Jordanville and later transfered to Russia

Give it a rest.

Nicholas Trahan!

Why? A year later the ROCOR synod although eschewing physical violence, think what kind of stink it would have raised, made a concerted effort through the courts to steal a convent and the very elderly Abbess Eugenia, Mother Amvrossia and Mother Isihia were subjected to intense pressure over a protracted period, some two years, until they managed to buy themselves some peace. The ROCOR synod might give the impression that its attack on Metropolitan Vitaly wasn't of their doing, but their acts a year later show the same mind.

As for being sent to Russia... well, it's easier to use such tactics there since Putin is finalising the destruction of free speech, etc.

WOW! This is so very sad. All this happened more than four years ago.

So Christ died, get over it....

Would you appreciate your Bishops being addressed by their civil names?

Which would you prefer, court martial or firing squad?

I think that you crazies would be the first to pounce that the Bishops of the Vitaliban should be honoured and obeyed.

Obedience demanded by bishops is a heresy in Orthodox Christianity. You must be thinking of Roman catholicism.

This was a very painful period in the life of what was the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia. She no longer exists so let's put all this to rest.

She still exists, but now run by hierarchs who think nothing of ordering stalinlike tactics to get what they want.

Myrrh

[Reader Nicholas]

If there is anyone on the attack it is the person who started this thread and who has failed to answer my questions.

I thought I was answering them, but perhaps you mean direct response to every comment or question? OK, I'll try.

It happened too long ago and thosee involved were punished. Bishop Michael was imprisoned in Jordanville and later transfered to Russia

Give it a rest.

Nicholas Trahan!

Why? A year later the ROCOR synod although eschewing physical violence, think what kind of stink it would have raised, made a concerted effort through the courts to steal a convent and the very elderly Abbess Eugenia, Mother Amvrossia and Mother Isihia were subjected to intense pressure over a protracted period, some two years, until they managed to buy themselves some peace. The ROCOR synod might give the impression that its attack on Metropolitan Vitaly wasn't of their doing, but their acts a year later show the same mind.

As for being sent to Russia... well, it's easier to use such tactics there since Putin is finalising the destruction of free speech, etc.

WOW! This is so very sad. All this happened more than four years ago.

So Christ died, get over it....

Would you appreciate your Bishops being addressed by their civil names?

Which would you prefer, court martial or firing squad?

I think that you crazies would be the first to pounce that the Bishops of the Vitaliban should be honoured and obeyed.

Obedience demanded by bishops is a heresy in Orthodox Christianity. You must be thinking of Roman catholicism.

This was a very painful period in the life of what was the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia. She no longer exists so let's put all this to rest.

She still exists, but now run by hierarchs who think nothing of ordering stalinlike tactics to get what they want.

Myrrh

Just wondering how much more we are to endure before this "MYRRH" is silenced. Doesn't this whole thing fall into "ATTACK"?

Nicholas Trahan

[Myrrh]

he also refused the Burial of Brother Jose, when Jose was murdered in Greece, and the Myrrh streaming Icon of the Theotokos was stolen...

I don't know anything about this. What I do know is that around five years ago when I began exploring the history of ROCOR in America it was on a discussion board of mainly American converts. I had a lot of questions, but every time I was rash enough to defend the legitimacy of ROCOR I was subject to an immense amount of abuse. Nothing I presented, not even the Ukaz with explanation, could stop it. And one convert took great delight in saying that he new people in ROCOR and soon ROCOR would cease to exist and no one would even remember them.

As I said, I don't know anything about this, but my gut reaction is that those capable of treating these nuns in this way, let alone trying to steal the convent are capable, of sowing confusion. In fact that is a another common tactic used, to spread lies and misinformation to destabalise, to turn friends into enemies. And the history of ROCOR in America is that since the MP became interested in presenting itself on the world stage as the "Mother" Church of Russia it has done everything it could to claim ROCOR property as its own and this well practised and well known history continues in Russia, where there are recent examples of violence used against the churches trying to remain apart from the MP.

The situation in London is of the pattern of tactics. The first wave of migrants from Russia after Perestroika had no problems with Metropolitan Anthony or the parishoners who had built up the churches there with their own funds and with the help of friends, but towards the end of Metropolitan Anthony's life a few people arrived from Russia who began creating dissent, they began stirring up trouble where none had existed. And what a coincidence, the trouble makers claimed they spoke for all the Russians that the property belonged to the MP. And people, who are the majority, not knowing anything different believe those with the loudest voice. Of course the bishop is subject to obey the MP...

Archimandrite Sophrony (His Life is Mine, Chapter 9; SVS Press pg.73):

Code: Select all

 "Man is made in the image of God, Who is humble but at the same time free. Therefore it is normal and natural that he should be after the

likeness of his Creator - that he should recoil from exercising control over others while himself being free and independent by virtue of the presence of the Holy Spirit within him. Those who are possessed by the lust for power cloud the image of God in themselves."

"There is a hierarchy in the Church, but it is a hierarchy of
service, not of power. [.] A hierarchy of submission, obedience and
subjection on all levels is a heresy against the Church".
Metropolitan Anthony of Sourozh

I can't see anything orthodox in the acts of those who have a history of violence in getting their way and spread this wherever they go.

Myrrh

[Myrrh]

Just wondering how much more we are to endure before this "MYRRH" is silenced. Doesn't this whole thing fall into "ATTACK"?

Nicholas Trahan

Why do you want to silence me Nicholas? What do you find so upsetting about my questions?

So - what other tactics do you know of creating hate and confusion among people who want to live in peace, but whose property and name some want to acquire?

Myrrh