ROCOR-L UNANIMOUSLY VOTES TO UNITE WITH MP!

[尼古拉前执事]

ROCA hierarch demands repentance from Moscow
http://itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?Ne ... &PageNum=0
13.05.2006, 17.46

SAN FRANCISCO, May 13 (Itar-Tass) -- A Russian Orthodox Church Abroad (ROCA) hierarch on Saturday demanded that the Moscow Patriarchate publicly repent for cooperation with authorities in Soviet times.

The demand, put forth by Bishop Gabriel of Manhattan, came quite unexpectedly after the ROCA All-Abroad Assembly had passed a resolution on the reunification with the Russian Orthodox Church.

[TomS]

And, excuse me, but WHAT is this "ABSTAINED" vote nonsense???!!!! Aren't these people supposed to be guided by the Holy Spirit?? Is the Holy Spirit NOT SURE???

If a priest of my Church did this I would say that he needs to be replaced. You can't ABSTAIN from these types of votes!

I am supposed to take this priest's guidence in my life and yet his prayers have not been answered where he can discern how he is supposed to vote on an issue that affects the whole Body of Christ? :ohvey:

[pjhatala]

Wow, every story says something different. First the ROCOR-L announces it was approved unanimously, then Fr John says there was no vote on the 3rd & final document and then the story Peter posted with a number of dissenters. Which is the truth?

Well, the link to the Sobor webpage confirms it.

[尼古拉前执事]

Confirms which story? I mean it can only be one.

A. Unanimously approved by all delegates as the resolution says on the official ROCOR web site.

B. The final version was not voted on at all like Fr. John Shaw says.

C. Votes were taken on each paragraph and there were those that dissented and those that abstained on a number of paragraphs but the majority approved all paragraphs.

[尼古拉前执事]

1). We, the participants of the IV All-Diaspora Council, having gathered in the God-preserved city of San Francisco, in the blessed presence of the Protectress of the Russian Diaspora, the Kursk-Root Icon of the Mother of God, and the holy relics of Saint John of Shanghai and San Francisco, in trembling recognition of the duty laid upon us, in obedience to our Archpastor, Christ, with complete trust and love of the pastors and laity to our First Hierarch, His Eminence Metropolitan Laurus, and the Council of Bishops, attest that as loyal children of the Holy Church, we shall submit to Divine will and obey the decisions of the forthcoming Council of Bishops.

2). We archpastors, pastors and laymen, members of the IV All-Diaspora Council, unanimously express our resoluteness to heal the wounds of division within the Russian Church—between her parts in the Fatherland and abroad. Our Paschal joy is joined by the great hope that in the appropriate time, the unity of the Russian Church will be restored upon the foundation of the Truth of Christ, opening for us the possibility to serve together and to commune from one Chalice.

Paragraphs 1 and 2
Are accepted UNANIMOUSLY

3). Hearing the lectures read at the Council, the reports made by the Commission on negotiations with the corresponding Commission of the Moscow Patriarchate, and the various points of view expressed during the discussions, we express our conciliar consent that it is necessary to confirm the canonical status of the Russian Church Abroad for the future as a self-governing part of the Local Russian Church, in accordance with the Regulations of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia currently in force.

Paragraph 3.
FOR - 116 delegates
AGAINST - 2 delegates
ABSTAINED - 6 delegates

4). From discussions at the Council it is apparent that the participation of the Russian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate in the World Council of Churches evokes confusion among our clergy and flock. With heartfelt pain we ask the hierarchy of the Russian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate to heed the plea of our flock to expediently remove this temptation.

Paragraph 4.
FOR - 123 delegates
AGAINST - anybody (0)
ABSTAINED- 1 delegate

5). We hope that the forthcoming Local Council of One Russian Church will settle remaining unresolved church problems.

Paragraph 5.
FOR - 117 delegates
AGAINST - 3 delegates
ABSTAINED - 4 delegates

6). Bowing down before the podvig [spiritual feats] of the Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia, glorified both by the Russian Church Abroad and by the Russian Church in the Fatherland, we see within them the spiritual bridge which rises above the abyss of the lethal division in the Russian Church and makes possible the restoration of that unity which is desired by all.

7). we, the members of the IV All-Diaspora Council, address our brothers and sisters in the faith in our renascent Homeland with the Paschal hymns: "Pascha! Let us embrace each other joyously!"

Paragraphs 6 and 7.
Are accepted UNANIMOUSLY

http://www.sobor2006.com/more.php?id=106_0_1_0_M

Hmm, according to http://www.sobor2006.com/more2.php?id=109_0_3_0_M the counts have changed again!?!

Vote Tallying Committee presents official voting results

On Friday, May 12, 2006, the IV All-Diaspora Vote Tallying Committee presented the official results on the vote regarding the IV All-Diaspora Council Resolution. The vote took place on Thursday, May 11, 2006. 124 delegates took part in the vote on the Resolution. The vote was taken on a paragraph by paragraph basis. The results are as follows:

Paragraphs 1 and 2.
Adopted UNANIMOUSLY

Paragraph 3.
FOR - 116
AGAINST - 2
ABSTENSIONS - 6

Paragraph 4.
FOR - 123
AGAINST - 0
ABSTENSIONS - 1

Paragraph 5.
FOR - 117
AGAINST - 3
ABSTENSIONS: 4

Paragraph 6.
Adopted UNANIMOUSLY

Paragraph 7.
FOR - 115
AGAINST - 2
ABSTENSIONS: 7

Chairman of the Vote Tallying Committee:
Priest Vladimir Petrenko (Diocese of South America)

Members of the Vote Tallying Committee:
Protodeacon Andre Meillassoux (Diocese of Western Europe)
Alexander Mutilin (Diocese of Odessa)

[pjhatala]

1). We, the participants of the IV All-Diaspora Council, having gathered in the God-preserved city of San Francisco, in the blessed presence of the Protectress of the Russian Diaspora, the Kursk-Root Icon of the Mother of God, and the holy relics of Saint John of Shanghai and San Francisco, in trembling recognition of the duty laid upon us, in obedience to our Archpastor, Christ, with complete trust and love of the pastors and laity to our First Hierarch, His Eminence Metropolitan Laurus, and the Council of Bishops, attest that as loyal children of the Holy Church, we shall submit to Divine will and obey the decisions of the forthcoming Council of Bishops.

2). We archpastors, pastors and laymen, members of the IV All-Diaspora Council, unanimously express our resoluteness to heal the wounds of division within the Russian Church—between her parts in the Fatherland and abroad. Our Paschal joy is joined by the great hope that in the appropriate time, the unity of the Russian Church will be restored upon the foundation of the Truth of Christ, opening for us the possibility to serve together and to commune from one Chalice.

Paragraphs 1 and 2
Are accepted UNANIMOUSLY

3). Hearing the lectures read at the Council, the reports made by the Commission on negotiations with the corresponding Commission of the Moscow Patriarchate, and the various points of view expressed during the discussions, we express our conciliar consent that it is necessary to confirm the canonical status of the Russian Church Abroad for the future as a self-governing part of the Local Russian Church, in accordance with the Regulations of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia currently in force.

Paragraph 3.
FOR - 116 delegates
AGAINST - 2 delegates
ABSTAINED - 6 delegates

4). From discussions at the Council it is apparent that the participation of the Russian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate in the World Council of Churches evokes confusion among our clergy and flock. With heartfelt pain we ask the hierarchy of the Russian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate to heed the plea of our flock to expediently remove this temptation.

Paragraph 4.
FOR - 123 delegates
AGAINST - anybody (0)
ABSTAINED- 1 delegate

5). We hope that the forthcoming Local Council of One Russian Church will settle remaining unresolved church problems.

Paragraph 5.
FOR - 117 delegates
AGAINST - 3 delegates
ABSTAINED - 4 delegates

6). Bowing down before the podvig [spiritual feats] of the Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia, glorified both by the Russian Church Abroad and by the Russian Church in the Fatherland, we see within them the spiritual bridge which rises above the abyss of the lethal division in the Russian Church and makes possible the restoration of that unity which is desired by all.

7). we, the members of the IV All-Diaspora Council, address our brothers and sisters in the faith in our renascent Homeland with the Paschal hymns: "Pascha! Let us embrace each other joyously!"

Paragraphs 6 and 7.
Are accepted UNANIMOUSLY

http://www.sobor2006.com/more.php?id=106_0_1_0_M

Hmm, according to http://www.sobor2006.com/more2.php?id=109_0_3_0_M the counts have changed again!?!

Vote Tallying Committee presents official voting results

On Friday, May 12, 2006, the IV All-Diaspora Vote Tallying Committee presented the official results on the vote regarding the IV All-Diaspora Council Resolution. The vote took place on Thursday, May 11, 2006. 124 delegates took part in the vote on the Resolution. The vote was taken on a paragraph by paragraph basis. The results are as follows:

Paragraphs 1 and 2.
Adopted UNANIMOUSLY

Paragraph 3.
FOR - 116
AGAINST - 2
ABSTENSIONS - 6

Paragraph 4.
FOR - 123
AGAINST - 0
ABSTENSIONS - 1

Paragraph 5.
FOR - 117
AGAINST - 3
ABSTENSIONS: 4

Paragraph 6.
Adopted UNANIMOUSLY

Paragraph 7.
FOR - 115
AGAINST - 2
ABSTENSIONS: 7

Chairman of the Vote Tallying Committee:
Priest Vladimir Petrenko (Diocese of South America)

Members of the Vote Tallying Committee:
Protodeacon Andre Meillassoux (Diocese of Western Europe)
Alexander Mutilin (Diocese of Odessa)

Hmmm...that's strange. The votes for paragraph 7 is the only thing different from what I originally posted, right? On the webpage, in Russian, the votes are the same as the ones you just posted.

[尼古拉前执事]

Yeah I think so. I think I am starting to get the bigger picture now though.

This is just a theory based on all the contrary information that has been made public though.

Thursday there were votes on the first 2 drafts which did not pass, so a 3rd was made and according to Fr John Shaw there was no vote, so no dissenters, thus "unanimous" acceptance?

Then on Friday it seems they voted on each paragraph after telling the world it was unanimously passed the day before and there were a few dissenters and abstainers which are recorded above.

Then Bp Gabriel shocked the world by demanding the MP repent for Sergianism on Saturday.

I am thinking that the bishops' SOBOR will not be unanimous from what we have seen so far. I do think union will pass the SOBOR with Bps Daniel and Agathangel and possibly Gabriel voting no.