ROCOR and the Serbs

[Chrysostomos]

We need to Fast, Pray, and ask for forgiveness for our own sins...

Well said, and Amen!

Your fellow struggler in Christ,

Rd. Chrysostomos

[Priest Siluan]

There are even Greeks who say you can't be a "real" Orthodox if you aren't born Greek! What a laugh and a half that is.

Well, there are Russian that think in the same way, many of them in ROCOR. For instance, we have the topic of the "Uniya", the whole matter has to do with the "Russiness" not with the Faith.

[drewmeister2]

CHRIST IS RISEN!

drewmeister2 wrote:

Wouldn't this thus mean that ROCOR started to lose grace...

Who are you to substantiate where the Grace is?? What kind of comment is that? Are you saying that the Holy Communions I have taken have no Grace??

And how do you "start" to lose Grace? You either have it or you don't. The heretics, like the catholics, protestants and the non-Christians don't have it.

You're stepping over the line of blasphemy. You don't have the authority to make that kind of remark. It's flippant and an obvious indication of spiritual ignorance.

I suppose you think that you're the only "true" Orthodox Christian left and the rest of us are condemned.

Joanna

First of all, I got my history messed up, so that is what led me to start this thread. I understand it now.

Secondly, I don't believe ROCOR-L has Grace, as they commune New Calendarists now, and New Calendarism is a heresy. Even if they don't reunite with the MP, I still see them as Graceless because of their communion with the NC's.

Also, I follow the view of Metr. Vitaly, who continues to deny ROCOR-L as schismatic, as a false ROCOR. Schismatic Churches can't have Grace.

The losing of Grace is a very Orthodox view. Grace doesn't leave immediately when a bishop starts to preach heresy, but can gradually leave, and eventually fully leave, if the bishop doesn't correct his heresy. All the Greek True Orthodox Bishops no longer see the NC's as having Grace, and I believe this is the general consensus among Russian True bishops as well. You are right, though, that I don't have the authority to decide who has Grace and who doesn't. Problem is though, these aren't my views alone, but are the views of the True Orthodox bishops in Russia and Greece. I personally don't believe I am the only True Orthodox Christian left, but I do know that there are many who claim to be Orthodox who really aren't. I am 100% sure there are other Orthodox than me.

[尼古拉前执事]

We must ourselves understand, and also declare for all to hear, that
since 1927, when Metropolitan Sergius signed his lamentable
"declaration," and up to the present day, our Russian Orthodox Church
Outside Russia has not had and does not have any communion in prayer
with the Moscow Patriachate, which is nothing other than the
uncanonical creation of the former Soviet regime. By the same token
we do not have spiritual communion with a single other autocephalous
Orthodox Church which lives its spiritual and liturgical life
according to the new calendar. What liturgical communion can we have,
when we are still fasting, but they are celebrating the Nativity of
Christ by the new calendar? According to our calendar we are praying
to one saint, while the new calendarists in their way are praying to
a completely different saint. In other words, any kind of communion
has been destroyed, both in prayer and also even in the sacraments.

And so I, as First Hierarch, am calling upon all of you to remain
forever faithful to our Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia and
not to be confused by those appeals which we are all hearing more and
more often that we should unite and concelebrate with others in the
name of a loudly proclaimed "brotherly love." Where is our "brotherly
love" when we are living, in that which is most important to us - our
Divine Services - according to different calendars, and living a
different spiritual life? Let us ponder the meaning of that most
important phrase "Divine Service," which is to say, "serving God" and
then we will understand that in fact we are serving God Himself in
different ways.

[joasia]

CHRIST IS RISEN!

drewmeister wrote:

Secondly, I don't believe ROCOR-L has Grace

What you believe or don't believe doesn't conduct the act of God's Grace. In other words, to state where God sends His Grace is the act of authority equal to God and that is blasphemy. The point that I am focusing on is that many people feel that they are right to judge the movement of God's Grace. If you want to take on that burden of responsibility then you better be ready for the burden of the outcome. If carrying our own sins is a big enough burden on our souls and carrying the burden of sins of others' is worse(since we don't like to take on emotional baggage of others), how much more would be the burden of judging where God sends His Grace? Tread carefully along this road. Judge yourself, not others and certainly, not God.

[Monarhist]

Christ is Risen! Hristos Vaskrese! I have just joined your Forum. May I be so bold as to put in my "two-cents' worth"? I happened to read what Drewmeister 2 has to say , and then I read Joanna of Montreal's reply ( Joasia's ). Drewmeister, as I see it, politely expressed his opinion withOUT resorting to vituperation. He was also seeking objective "feedback", which, for ex., Otetz Deacon Nikolai magnanimously provided, slava Bogu! I feel that Joanna really needs to present her opinions in a more polite, repectful, and charitable manner!! Joanna is obviously upset that someone is doubting that ROCOR has Grace. In such a case Joanna should calmly, & compassionately attempt to offer evidence to Drewmeister showing why she feels that he is mistaken. Or Joanna could , for ex., politely offer Drewmeister 2 the tel.# or email addresses of some experienced clergy within ROCOR such as the noted Theologian and author of many spiritual books, Father Valerij Lukjanov of Howell, New Jersey or Archimandrite Luka of Jordanville with whom Drewmeister 2 could discuss this issue . Their contact info. is publicly available on ROCOR's webpage) There is that expression " It is not WHAT you say--BUT HOW you say it!" Joanna must understand that certain pious and very sincere Orthodox do feel that ROCOR has sadly lost Grace. Joanna must learn NOT to take this personally, but rather, as befits an Orthodox servant-of-God, to meekly and respectfully discuss her differences in opinion with Drewmeister 2. Caustic, sarcastic & disrespectful comments such as " I suppose you think that you're the only 'true' Orthodox Christian left , and the rest of us are condemned" are UNcalled for and not in keeping with the spirit of this Forum. ( I did read the rules before registering...) Furthermore, one should learn to talk TO Drewmeister, rather than talking AT him! ( or whomever else...) The issue of Grace and who has it, is not , as it were, the sole domain of Bishops & Kings. Clergy & laymen have the right to withdraw from their bishops if they sincerely feel that Orthodoxy has been adulterated ! By the way, I DO feel that ROCOR has Grace, but I will never( with God's help) resort to derision-filled commentaries or address someone with rudeness, and disrespect IF he feels the contrary ! It behooves us then to reinforce within ourselves the true message of Galatians 6:2 . And, may the ikona of the Mother-of-God , which Joanna piously displays in each of her postings --- be a perfect example of how an Orthodox woman should behave with humility and respect ! asking prayers, sinner, nikolai N.B. In case Joanna feels that i have expressed my own "personal" views here, let it be known that I first had a monk, and a nun read over this, in addition to my father confessor and they all agreed that your manner of speaking to Drewmeister left MUCH to be desired, putting it tactfully!

[joasia]

Monarhist,

I'm sorry that what I wrote has offended you. You do realize that everyone has their view of things. You mentioned that you have just joined, so perhaps you are not aware of the debate...and I mean, the debate over, let's say, the passed year. But, I understand your response. I have felt that way too.

Please accept my sincere apology for offending you by reading this. I will certainly sensor my words in the future.

Please pray for me, a sinner,

Joanna