ROCOR and the Serbs

drewmeister2 · Post by **drewmeister2** » Tue 9 May 2006 11:03 pm

I may have heard an answer to this question from others, but I don't know if I've ever gotten a person in a Russian jurisdiction to explain this to me.

As far as I know, ROCOR and the Serbs have had communion for quite some time. Also, I think the Serbs commune New Calendarists. Wouldn't this thus mean that ROCOR started to lose grace back when they established communion with the Serbs ( I think this happened in the 80's, although I could be wrong).

Thank you.

Anastasios · Post by **Anastasios** » Tue 9 May 2006 11:21 pm

ROCOR never stopped being in communion with the Serbs, although concelebrations were rare in the 1970's. ROCOR also has always been in communion with the Jerusalem Patriarchate.

Anastasios

Priest Siluan · Post by **Priest Siluan** » Wed 10 May 2006 9:09 am

It is a strange situation, a long time ago the Patriarch Pavle said that ROCOR was not in the Church.

尼古拉前执事 · Post by **尼古拉前执事** » Wed 10 May 2006 11:02 am

As recently as 2003 Bp Gabriel said that ROCOR was not in communion with the Serbian Church. Many in ROCOR were under the impression that after the Sorrowful Epistles and the Anathema against Ecumenism there was no longer communion. Definitely concelebration and communion was forbidden by Saint Philaret at that time as one can see from many fo his letters.

I cannot currently find the post where Justin asked a Serbian Metropolitan in America in 2003 if there was communion and he said absolutely not. Since then there has been concelebration with this very Metropolitan so communion and concelebration with the Serbs is definitely back, although depending on who you ask, it seems to have not been visible in the 70's through early 2000's. It may not have been broken via paperwork, but the reality is that outside of some that did not care what their Metropolitan and Synod said, in essence there was no true communion for this period.

Priest Siluan · Post by **Priest Siluan** » Wed 10 May 2006 11:17 am

St Philaret prohibited the concelebrations with the Serbs and also Metropolitan Vitaly maintained this position, also some people argue that the reasons were not only the ecumenism but the participation of many Serbian clergymen in America in the Masonry.

Anastasios · Post by **Anastasios** » Wed 10 May 2006 1:36 pm

When Justin asked those questions, so did I, and if you remember, another Metropolitan of the Serbian Church told me that yes in fact, they were in communion with ROCOR.

People on one side make it out like ROCOR officially broke communion and then it was subversively reinstituted under Vitaly. Others, like Fr Shaw, make it out like everything was always a-ok for the whole period in question. I think the reality was an estrangement, with some bishops like the fellow in Western Europe (Anthony of Geneva) continuing to concelebrate (which prompted several protests over the years--but note he was never removed from office). So it seems to be a murky water.

Anastasios

drewmeister2 · Post by **drewmeister2** » Wed 10 May 2006 6:57 pm

Thanks everyone .

But then wouldn't the ROCOR being in communion with the JP pose problems as well, as I think the JP communes New Calendarists?