Holy Fire

Patristic theology, and traditional teachings of Orthodoxy from the Church fathers of apostolic times to the present. All forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.


Ekaterina
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Post by Ekaterina »

I will probably be ridiculed for this but it won't be the first time......

I am absolutely amazed at the depth we have fallen. We can't even allow ourselves simple faith.....faith in God and his Son.

If we as supposed Orthodox christians believe that God created the world and every complex thing in it.....why would it be so very difficult to suppose that GOD could create a Fire....without the trappings of a match or any other external thing?

Just because we are in the midst of Jurisdictional fighting and playing that absolutely stupid...we are holier than thou...game, does not negate the possibility that GOD does create the fire. After all it's His decision and not ours as to whom, what, where and when it comes.

Of course even a person's simple faith in GOD is wrong to most so ....ridicule away....I will still believe in and hope in GOD, regardless.

Katya

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TomS
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Post by TomS »

Ekaterina wrote:

I will probably be ridiculed for this but it won't be the first time......

Not on this site.

----------------------------------------------------
They say that I am bad news. They say "Stay Away."

AndyHolland
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Post by AndyHolland »

Yikes! Doesn't anyone fear God?

When if you are wrong and you are declaring the action of the Holy Spirit to be of the devil? Haven't you read the Holy Gospels?

It is one thing to be a doubting Thomas and another to declare something that is good and miraculous is of the devil.

Beware the leaven of the Pharisees!

A sane human being realizes that they may be wrong, and in humility does not judge others or make sweeping declarations and attribute motives to others without absolute definitive proof.

Our "logic" is often flawed, especially compared to the foolishness of God that is beyond the wisdom of men.

Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

andy holland
sinner

PS. Beyond the wikipedia stupidity of St. Elmo's fire, which is beyond silliness - consider how in front of Saladin the Holy Fire lit the lamp three times. Consider how it came out of the pillar, and how it converted Muslims who became Martyrs who went to see how the "trick" was done. Can satan drive out satan?

See www.holyfire.org/eng

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Liudmilla
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Post by Liudmilla »

Police block Armenian pilgrims from attending Easter ceremony in Jerusalem

By Haaretz Correspondent and AP, By Amiram Barkat

Police prevented hundreds of Armenian worshipers from taking part in a sacred pre-Easter ceremony at the Church of the Holy Sepulchre yesterday. Armenian church officials said the police behaved rudely to church members and senior clergy and arrested four Armenians near the Old City police station, releasing them only after the Armenians stopped the festive procession to the church in protest.

Armenian Archbishop Nourhan Manougian told Haaretz that the police only allowed 400 of 700 Armenian pilgrims to enter the church for the Ceremony of the Holy Fire, despite the fact that all had entry permits, as required by police, he said. "Israel always declares that it allows free access to the holy places but in fact the police acted like a despot to the pilgrims. There were some who had come especially for the ceremony from the U.S., from Canada and from Australia who were not allowed in."

During the ceremony, a flame, believed by some faithful to be miraculously ignited, illuminated thousands of worshipers' torches and candles at the church, as tense hours of waiting and shoving culminated in the celebration of the rite.

Believers see the passage of the flame among worshipers as connecting many of the 200 million Orthodox Christians worldwide to their spiritual roots.

The ritual dates back at least 1,200 years. The precise details of the flame's source are a closely guarded secret, but some believe it appears spontaneously from the burial area, as a message from Jesus on the eve of the Orthodox Easter that he has not forgotten his followers.

Some 3,000 police were involved in security at the ceremony, which was attended by approximately 15,000 pilgrims.

Manougian met on the eve of the ceremony with the commander of the Jerusalem district of the police, Major General Ilan Franko, and asked him to treat the pilgrims politely. However he said Franko "spoke to me as if I were a student of his, and hinted all the time that if we did not abide by the agreements..."

The Jerusalem police responded that officers had detained a number of intoxicated individuals who had joined the Armenian procession and were behaving wildly. They were released when they calmed down, police said.

With regard to complaints that Armenian worshipers were pushed, police said it was Armenian clergy who had pushed Russian pilgrims trying to join the procession, and that officers had intervened only to separate the two sides.

Police also said Franko had conducted talks in recent weeks with all sides involved in the ceremony, and had reached an agreement acceptable to all. "The meeting ended with embraces and kisses, and so Archbishop Manougian's claims are surprising," police said.

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Грешник
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Post by Грешник »

We think of the Holy Fire as an individual and seperate act from the rest of history. How untrue this is.

We can see the actions of God in the Old and New Testaments where Christ Jesus shows authority over creatures and creation. From the Creation of the world, talking to Moses in the BURNING BUSH, the 2 children in the FURNACE OF FIRE... the list goes on. Are these different than the Holy Fire? I se no distinction except in time.

The Holy Spirit is beyond and outside of human jurisdictions. He is beyond and above our petty squabbles. All He asks of us is Faith. Now, I said "asks" as we have Free Will, but do you not think I hurts Christ ot know that there are those OF THE FAITH who ridicule His power and authority on the basis of the fact that WE THINK one jurisdiction does not DESERVE the action of the Holy Spirit even if it is for the conversion of the soul?

Was Saint Mary of Egypt worthy of the Grace of the Holy Spirit in her lige when she was looking in that Church on the Feast of the Exaltation? She was more worthy than we are today.

O Lord, I believe, help my unbelief!

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Chrysostomos
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Post by Chrysostomos »

Tom said:

It's fake people. It's a trick.

There is absolutely no reason why we need these types of supposed "miracles"

Ekaterina said:

why would it be so very difficult to suppose that GOD could create a Fire....without the trappings of a match or any other external thing?

Tom,

I believe it is real and have myself experienced something somewhat similar at a ROCOR monastery three years ago at Pascha service.

You are correct in stating that there is no "reason" why we need these type of supposed "miracles". I counter with the idea, that God can choose to manifest Himself in whatever way He wishes, and this is one of those instances in which He choses to do so.

What comes to mind is John Chapter 1.

verse 5: And the light shines in the darkness; and the darkness did not comprehend it.

verse 9: There was the true light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.

Perhaps it is for this "reason" and this reason alone, to bear witness of Christ Ressurection and His Light.

Ekaterina is right, it is not difficult to believe God can do such a thing, especially if one has experienced it themselves.

Christ is Risen!!!

Your fellow struggler in Christ,

Rd. Chrysostomos

AndyHolland
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Post by AndyHolland »

Also, the AP story stated that the creation of the fire is a secret - that is untrue:
http://www.holyfire.org/eng/doc_Miracle ... m#Diodorus

andy holland
sinner

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