Holy Fire

[drewmeister2]

I was thinking today, why does Holy Fire appear to a Patriarch who communes (as far as I know) New Calendarists (and thus according to the NC Anathemas, is in heresy)? I have read before that once the Armenian Patriarch tried to do it, and it didn't work for him, probably because he was in heresy.

I do remember reading once as well though that one time when the JP went on the NC, the Holy Fire didn't appear. He went back on the OC the next year, and it appeared. However, he still communes NC's (I'm pretty sure), so I wonder how the Holy Fire could still appear for him.

[尼古拉前执事]

One theory is to continue to show others the true day of Pascha.

[drewmeister2]

Hmm, that would make sense, especially since the majority of Western nations celebrate Western "Easter". Almost like a tool of evangelization.

Thanks .

[Justin Kissel]

So, according to this theory, teaching non-Orthodox that they celebrate pascha on the wrong day is more important to God than bringing someone out of (supposed) pan-heresy? Why doesn't God just transfer his miracle-working power to the GOC or ROAC, so as to really show the non-Orthodox (and also the "apostate" world Orthodox) the path to enlightenment? The answer is plain from a review of Church history... if there is a God, he doesn't care about whether little ricky holds to a heretical belief or little susie goes to the wrong Church. It all reminds me of that Star Trek: TNG episode (Devil's Due), where a con artist goes to a world claiming to be Ardra, a devil-like creature who provided the planet with a thousand years of piece, but at the cost of ownership of the planet. Picard asks what Ardra had done to solve their problems. Had she destroyed the weapons? Cleaned the environment? No, she had done nothing, not even "picked up a scrap of paper," the people of the planet had done it all themselves. Yet, the citizens of the planet refused to accept that Ardra was fake or myth. She was the all-powerful Ardra, after all: cross her and you'd be in serious trouble. Church history is much the same, from the very beginning an amazing number of factions arguing over who is right, and warning that to disagree with them means to be on the path to suffering and torment.

But God did not interfere with the persecutions, God did not interfere when "Christian" Roman emperors persecuted the Orthodox, God did not interfere when semi-Arian missionaries converted Northern Europe, leaving millions in the semi-Arian "heresy" for literally centuries. God did not interfere at Ephesus or Chalcedon, to suggest a compromise that would save Christianity from splitting. God did not cause the beliefs of the 7th Ecumenical Council to be enforced, but let "his Church" fall immediately back into turmoil, which was to last another century. God did not prevent the Crusaders from pillaging, raping, murdering, and putting Protitutes on the Altar in Constantinople. God did not champion the cause of those westerners (pre-Protestants) gathered at Basle in the 15th century, nor did he support the anti-papal sentiment which could have been ignited into a fire at Ferrara. Further, when the Council was transferred from Ferrara to Florence, God did not see fit to make orthodoxy triumph. God did not stop the dastardly Turks from conquering Constantinople. And while the martyrdoms of the early Church supposedly led to her growth, the results of the martyrdoms of the 16th-20th centuries were a very different story (I guess God wasn't in the missionary mood, as his Church was not only not growing, but was doing everything it could from being obliterated-- and it wasn't, of course, though not because of God's power, but because the power of an idea can remain alive as long as even a few people believe it) . And I could go on, but those few examples from Church history are pretty representative of God's involvement in the world's affairs; that is to say, no involvement at all.

[drewmeister2]

EDIT: Thanks.

[DavidHawthorne]

I hope you are one day able to find faith again, Justin. Like you, I also am aware of the "warts" of Church history. But, seeing those same facts you mentioned I think "Unless God had "interfered" things might have been even worse."

In Christ's Love,
Rd. David

[Ekaterina]

I was told that the Holy Fire is GOD's gift to the Orthodox church, the patriarch whomever he might be does not matter......Katya